[Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi

[simran chadha]

Hey Partha and Kshmendra! 
 
was just curious as to how you called the LTTE a Hindu organisation and later ofcourse corrected it by referred to the strong christian elements. Sorry, but religion has never played a determining role in the LTTE and certainly not Hinduism. The Kovils may have been used as hiding places, incidentally, or even for visting on festive occasions or distribution of prasad - its a guerilla warfare after all so the terraine is as much a part of the mise-en-scene; but never never was religion co-mingled with the carrying out of a terrorist act. Rather the complete absence of God and religion is what makes the LTTE so different from any other terrorist outfit, in south asia or japan or ireland. Check out their marching song! or the matyrs day celebration - no recourse to any higher form of authority than the human.
yes, charles anthony - prabhakaran's son, who heads the LTTE airforce bears a christian name but no belssing of any saint are sort before or after.
my question still remains and i would be glad to be informed, where did u get the religious connection from - the manifesto, the documents by the Balasingham's where?
simran

--- On Tue, 16/9/08, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
Cc: Date: Tuesday, 16 September, 2008, 6:25 PM

Dear Kshmendra,
The questions you have asked about 'what is terror', etc is something I
would not like to elaborate on as each has his/her own interpretation.

Bhagat Singh is a freedom fighter as far as we Indians are concerned, but
for the govt of the day he was a terrorist. There is no 'standard'
definition of what a terrorist is and each person / entity would translate
the word in their own way.

As for defining LTTE as Hindu terrorists - guess that question is wide open
depending upon what we use as the pointer. If the primary factor is what
religion / group do they belong to, then we'd have a ready answer.

If, however, we look beyond and try to identify the aim / purpose behind the
conflict, there'd be another answer all together - some of them not very
clear.

Even if a 'terrorist' follows a ideology/religion/place/societal group
-
that's a personal root that s/he has. It does not follow that all people of
the ideology/religion/place/societal group follow the same radical
conclusion.

Guess we could go on and on - fact is that we'll all equate the phrase
'terrorist' from our personal point of view and experiences.

Apologies for sounding vague, but you started a line of thought that I'd
never really looked at before.

Rgds, Partha
.................................

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Kshmendra Kaul
<kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Dear Partha
>
> My questioning of the LTTE being called Hindu was to help me in my
> discussions with my own self.
>
> I am still struggling in my mind over 'what is terror'; 'who
is a
> terrorist'; 'when should an organisation (or a system) be called a
terrorist
> one' and 'when should an act of terror, or a terrorist, or a
terrorist
> organisation be identified with an ideology/religion/place/societal
group'.
>
> There is total agreement with your words:
>
> """""" The terrorist may belong to any
religion or caste or place or
> whatever - however, lumping all the people of that religion or caste or
> place as terrorists because one or some people from that group performed
> 'acts of terrorism' is not
justifiable."""""""
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 9/16/08, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> From: Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
> To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 9:37 AM
>
>
>  Dear Kshmendra,
> Studied in Baroda / Vadodra and saw communal rights flare up on
> the weirdest of reasons. Have seen a close friend who wouldn't kill
> cockroaches try to burn a bus in the frenzy of a mob.
>
> As for defining the LTTE as Hindu - my point is different, and is
something
> I have mentioned earlier. The terrorist may belong to any religion or
caste
> or place or whatever - however, lumping all the people of that religion or
> caste or place as terrorists because one or some people from that group
> performed 'acts of terrorism' is not justifiable.
>
> In short, am against the mass generalization wherein we identify an entire
> group a 'terrorists'.
>
> To put it the other way around, am a Hindu, but do not identify with the
> demolition of the Babri Masjid or the attacks on Christians that is
> happening. Just a personal belief, but if any person is converting to
> another faith for benefits accrued then obviously his faith wasn't
strong in
> the first place & s/he won't be much of a loss.
>
> Rgds, Partha
> .......................................
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Kshmendra Kaul
<kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> Dear Partha
>>
>> Do not mean to butt in.
>>
>> Just wondering whether any 'acts of terrorrising' by the LTTE
can be
>> designated as 'acts of terrorising' by Hindus.
>>
>> Would it not be more apt to link 'acts of terror' with a
religious
>> identity when such 'acts of terror' are carried out in the
name a particular
>> religion or are solely based on the religious identity?
>>
>> There are many instances of 'acts of terror by Hindus' which
can be so
>> designated because they are carried out in the name of Hinduism or are
>> solely based upon and connected to the Hindu identity of the
perpetrators.
>>
>> Just wondering.
>>
>> Kshmendra
>>
>> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Partha Dasgupta <
>> partha.dasgupta at eliteinfomachine.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Partha Dasgupta <partha.dasgupta at eliteinfomachine.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
>> To: radhikarajen at vsnl.net
>> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:28 PM
>>
>> Dear Radhika Rajen,
>>
>> In may mails on this list you have pointed out how the elected
>> representative is only a beneficiary divided caste votes and not a
true
>> representative.
>>
>> Now you jump to another point altogether and talk about the UPA
>> chairperson
>> and the eloctorate.
>>
>> Please  stick to a viewpoint as it is hard to trace what your
viewpoint
>> is.
>> If you have changed your viewpoint, then please denote so.
>>
>> In any case, saw the killings (directly and first hand in Delhi)
during
>> the
>> Sikh militancy days and have seen communal riots in Baroda, Gujarat;
and
>> all
>> I can say is that when herd mentality takes over the common sense is
lost.
>>
>> Also, from Babri Masjid to the incapable idiots who got blown up some
time
>> back, we have seen Hindu militancy.
>>
>> Either we can agree that militancy in all forms is wrong or we can
quibble
>> about shades of right or wrong.
>>
>> So, where do you stand:
>>
>> a)   Militancy & armed conflict is wrong
>>
>> OR
>>
>> b)   Hindu's are allowed to have a conflict as they have been
repressed as
>> a
>> majority
>>      and that cases like Godhra, Sikh killings in Delhi and Babri
Masjid
>> are justified.
>>
>> Rgds, Partha
>>
>> PS: I do note that when you talk of terror, you never refer to the
LTTE
>> (Hindu & Indian) which is considered as one of the most dangerous
>> terrorist
>> organisations and has killed a Prime Minister of India (and is not
Muslim
>> or
>> Christian) or the killing of Indira Gandi - or is it that since they
were
>> not BJP/RSS that you do not consider them a loss?
>> .....................................................
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 4:05 PM, <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Without getting in to blame games, the need of the moment is the
>> > chairperson of UPA who is now proxy governor of the nation should
have
>> good
>> > introspection of the events and see if her Home Minister who was
once
>> > speaker, but discarded by the electorate, got into rajya sabha by
>> nomination
>> >  and then is the Home minister, is he capable of any action. A
dummy
>> like
>> > Prime minister, again diitto to the governance who has no
incentive to
>> > perform as Prime minister being discard beaucrat, has been  of
yester
>> years,
>> > can not make up his mind to take tough action for fear of
votebank
>> getting
>> > "hurt". By this inaction, in actual practise muslims
are getting
>> branded as
>> > terrorists for the simple reason, they are not willing to be
ready to
>> > identify, isolate and give up those who indulge in terror
activities. It
>> is
>> > sad scene indeed. Wheras the hindus do not want violence and
bhajrang
>> dal
>> > gets no sympathy for its acts of violence, muslims by floating
NGOs to
>> > defend the accused are helping the ter
>> > ror accused, sheltoring the accused for plain and simple lots of
money
>> in
>> > the trade of defending the terror.
>> >
>> > regards.
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Priya Sen <senpriya at gmail.com>
>> > Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:18 pm
>> > Subject: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
>> > To: reader-list at sarai.net
>> >
>> > > Dear All,
>> > >
>> > > India Gate, September 13th, 6:20 or so in the evening. I had
>> > > decided to walk
>> > > from Triveni Academy towards Khan Market, determined to buy
a
>> > > bicycle and
>> > > thinking, it's getting dark and maybe I should wait
until Monday
>> > > and I
>> > > shouldn't tell my mother about my biking plans and even
though I
>> > > plan to
>> > > ride early mornings I need to ride it back home now and so
on and
>> > > so forth.
>> > > India Gate was as India Gate is on a weekend evening.
Walking
>> > > through it
>> > > made me think of other times I had been there, a few
specific
>> > > memories and a
>> > > general sense of being in Delhi - of familiarity and ease
from
>> > > having been
>> > > here for as long as I have, and of curiousity, the kind that
comes
>> > > fromknowing that places are never the same - making mental
notes
>> > > for no one
>> > > really about the Kwality Walls ice cream cart that had a
board
>> > > saying 'Old
>> > > Vendor, India Gate since 1956', and the astrologer who
sits in
>> the
>> > > sameplace always, and people with video cameras filming the
gate
>> > > who always make
>> > > me wonder at what they think  when they play it back later.
It
>> > > took 15
>> > > minutes to cross over to Shah Jahan Road. Me, a couple of
young
>> > > men, and a
>> > > papad seller who the policeman who was also waiting for the
lights to
>> > > change, generally swore at, and I laughed at how swearing is
so
>> > > integral to
>> > > ones day in Delhi.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Later I heard there were a couple of bombs that were
defused, one
>> > > at Regal
>> > > Cinema and one at India Gate. I realized how many stories
there
>> > > are now. Of
>> > > yesterday. Of where we were when.. . Of places we know so
well. Of
>> > > our lives
>> > > up until the moment life changed for so many people in our
city.
>> > > Of the
>> > > things that make our days what they are and will continue
to.
>> > > Everyone will
>> > > have a story because everyone needs to claim something from
>> > > moments like
>> > > these. And everyone (in this city) must because this moment
was
>> > > about Delhi.
>> > > It's happened before. Here, in other places, it will
happen again
>> > > and again
>> > > and these will be 'the times according to people who
live in
>> these
>> > > times'.And all we can really do is to embrace our lives
a little
>> > > harder.
>> > >
>> > > The last time I mourned for this city, a little like this,
is when
>> > > I watched
>> > > Nanglamachi being demolished and people gathering their
lives into
>> > > bundlesand tempos and going wherever. The ruthlessness was
>> > > overwhelming. Not to
>> > > make analogies here. Although nothing wrong with analogies
and
>> > > other things
>> > > that make us feel what we feel. No rules for that! Think,
feel
>> > > whatever -
>> > > it's all part of the way we make sense of things on day
2. It was
>> like
>> > > watching the news right after the blasts happened, when the
>> > > reporters were
>> > > as bewildered as everyone else. Somehow in their floundering
the news
>> > > channels were credible for a moment. Before the information
>> > > started coming
>> > > in and before they started interpreting it, that is. We know
what
>> > > they do
>> > > and do well. Nothing is surprising, just a bit defeating and
then
>> > > you think
>> > > why. Maybe we're defeated by the way we think, are told
to think,
>> > > don'tthink. Maybe sometimes it has nothing to do with
how we
>> live.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Delhi feels quiet today, but that's also from where I
am. Also
>> > > it's Sunday.
>> > > It will probably not seem very different when I go out later
in the
>> > > afternoon. But my sister called me this morning and was in
tears
>> > > and saying
>> > > she couldn't sleep because of all this and is feeling
restless
>> > > because lakhs
>> > > of people are going to be out on the streets today for
Ganapati
>> > > visarjan in
>> > > Bombay. For her it's about Bombay as well, the place
where she
>> has
>> > > her life.
>> > > When public places become vulnerable it means having to make
>> > > decisions about
>> > > things one doesn't necessarily think about. It's
about
>> everything
>> > > outside of
>> > > us that is essential to how we construct our lives. It's
about
>> > > everydaydecisions, small things, immediate concerns. About
being
>> > > able to imagine,
>> > > and dream and lose ourselves in places. For a few days we
will be
>> > > excruciatingly aware of how we move around the city. There
will be
>> > > remorseand anxiety and conversation. We will share a common
grief,
>> > > in degrees, and
>> > > it will bring us together more intensely. We will count and
blame and
>> > > speculate. And then we will thankfully, move on.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Right now though, I would rather not. Not for today. I just
want
>> > > to be with
>> > > what this city means to me. Aside from its symbols, its
creation
>> > > of itself,
>> > > its skewed power dynamics and unbearable inequalities. A
friend
>> > > and I are
>> > > convinced that "Delhi steps in when we really need
something
>> to.".
>> > > Like the
>> > > wisdom of places. Not to get melodramatic! I'm glad I
was here
>> > > when this
>> > > happened and not somewhere else.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Regards,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Priya
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Priya Sen
>> > > Sarai-CSDS
>> > > 29, Rajpur Road, Civil Lines
>> > > Delhi - 110054
>> > > priya at sarai.net
>> > > _________________________________________
>> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > > Critiques & Collaborations
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>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________
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>> > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > subscribe in the subject header.
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https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Partha Dasgupta
>> +919811047132
>>  _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in
>> the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Partha Dasgupta
> +919811047132
>
>
>


-- 
Partha Dasgupta
+919811047132
_________________________________________
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