[Reader-list] Some Points from discussions

[Jeebesh]

Dear Sonia,

It is immensely possible to have a state without standing army, with  
agreements with bordering State on non-invasion. Many regions of the  
world will need this in near future. Karen people in Burma could for  
sure benefit from this. To workout borders of this state is not within  
my purview. It is something that will be decided in a complex process  
of  negotiation anyway.

What I was sharing was a concern to think how to not keep re-in- 
forcing ideas and positions that keep the "bleeding politics" alive.  
Lot of writing in this list is deeply immersed in thanatopolitics and  
need to think about it.

warmly
jeebesh


On 17-Sep-08, at 2:59 PM, S. Jabbar wrote:

> Dear Kshemendra, Jeebesh, Vivek, Sanjay and everyone else interested  
> in
> Kashmir,
>
> I have been away this past month, but have looked at the Sarai List  
> from
> time to time.  I find it interesting that the discussion on Kashmir  
> has
> turned to 'post-national' solutions and that Jeebesh volunteered the  
> Dixon
> Plan as one way of arriving at a solution. But if you study the plan
> carefully along with the maps you will realise that there are/were  
> very
> valid reasons for why it was rejected in the 1950's itself.
>
> Since then there have been various attempts to rephrase and re- 
> package the
> Dixon Plan into something more palatable, but because the basis in  
> all the
> subsequent proposals was a division of the state on religious lines  
> it was
> rejected by India.
>
> What I find interesting about the discussion so far is that most  
> people seem
> content to dismiss the nation-state as inherently obdurate, bent on  
> making
> the lives of Kashmiris, among others, miserable. Some thought and  
> some work
> has been done on Kashmir in the last sixty years, and I think not  
> only would
> it be grossly unfair to the people who have attempted to think about  
> and do
> something on Kashmir if one did not acknowledge it, but it would  
> also be
> reinventing a very flat wheel if one didn't examine past mistakes.
>
> About a month ago in a discussion with Shuddha I had put forward a  
> proposal
> for a South Asian Union that has been under discussion for several  
> years
> with friends from the region.  This would include Afghanistan,  
> Pakistan, Sri
> Lanka, India, Nepal, Bangladesh with the possibility of Tibet and  
> Burma as
> observer states.
>
> No takers on the list? Well, FYI by 2015 the governments of these  
> countries
> will have in place the South Asian Free Trade Agreement (SAFTA).   
> This push
> is obviously coming from the trade fraternity, but where does this  
> leave
> civil society? Why are we not responding creatively to something  
> which could
> potentially either become a trade agreement which would benefit only  
> big
> business, or something that could mean real freedom for the nearly 2  
> billion
> people in this region?
>
>
>> From: Vivek Narayanan <vivek at sarai.net>
>> Organization: Sarai
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:55:02 +0530
>> To: <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>, sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
>>
>> I did not say you wrote that Kshmendra, I said that I was given to
> understand
>> it that way from what you were saying.  Hence, the question
> mark in my note
>> below. Perhaps you are being a little too intelligently
> vague. In any case,
>> if you do think there are possibilities here beyond
> the nation state,
>> including beyond occupation by and assertion and
> domination of the Indian
>> nation state, I'd be very glad to hear of them.
>
> Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear Vivek
>>
>>
>>
>> Either I did not know what I was writing or you chose not
>> understand.
>> Either way that is unfortunate. You would not want that
>> happening with
>> you. Would you?
>>
>>
>>
>> Where in this particular thread
>> have I mentioned or suggested that :
>>
>>
>>
>> """"  any possible
>> "post-national" solution to the question of Kashmir
>> is hogwash,
>> dreamy,
>> silly, unthinkable"""""
>>
>>
>>
>> Once you answer that, I could (perhaps
>> tomorrow) address rest of what
>> you have written.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kshmendra
>>
>>
>
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