[Reader-list] Some Points from discussions

S. Jabbar sonia.jabbar at gmail.com
Wed Sep 17 20:38:23 IST 2008 

Absolutely, who said any of this wasn't possible and this is precisely what
a borderless South Asia hopes to achieve.

And I was merely sharing the idea that ideas are good in themselves, but
even radical, path-breaking ideas ought to be launched from a historical
context to make sense. If, that is, you want to transform them into reality.
Otherwise they remain just that: good ideas: thought

As for thanatopolitics, the discussions, sadly, merely reflect the condition
of our times from the great wars of the 20thc that have determined the
course of events, or indeed the smaller wars of attrition of the 21st c.
Perhaps it would be hoping too much to hope that people can think in ways
that can transcend this stuff.

Best
sj

> From: Jeebesh <jeebesh at sarai.net>
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:02:05 +0530
> To: Sarai Reader-list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
> 
> Dear Sonia,

It is immensely possible to have a state without standing army,
> with  
agreements with bordering State on non-invasion. Many regions of the
> 
world will need this in near future. Karen people in Burma could for  
sure
> benefit from this. To workout borders of this state is not within  
my
> purview. It is something that will be decided in a complex process  
of
> negotiation anyway.

What I was sharing was a concern to think how to not keep
> re-in- 
forcing ideas and positions that keep the "bleeding politics" alive.
> 
Lot of writing in this list is deeply immersed in thanatopolitics and  
need
> to think about it.

warmly
jeebesh


On 17-Sep-08, at 2:59 PM, S. Jabbar
> wrote:

> Dear Kshemendra, Jeebesh, Vivek, Sanjay and everyone else interested
> 
> in
> Kashmir,
>
> I have been away this past month, but have looked at the
> Sarai List  
> from
> time to time.  I find it interesting that the discussion
> on Kashmir  
> has
> turned to 'post-national' solutions and that Jeebesh
> volunteered the  
> Dixon
> Plan as one way of arriving at a solution. But if
> you study the plan
> carefully along with the maps you will realise that there
> are/were  
> very
> valid reasons for why it was rejected in the 1950's
> itself.
>
> Since then there have been various attempts to rephrase and re- 
>
> package the
> Dixon Plan into something more palatable, but because the basis
> in  
> all the
> subsequent proposals was a division of the state on religious
> lines  
> it was
> rejected by India.
>
> What I find interesting about the
> discussion so far is that most  
> people seem
> content to dismiss the
> nation-state as inherently obdurate, bent on  
> making
> the lives of
> Kashmiris, among others, miserable. Some thought and  
> some work
> has been
> done on Kashmir in the last sixty years, and I think not  
> only would
> it
> be grossly unfair to the people who have attempted to think about  
> and do
>
> something on Kashmir if one did not acknowledge it, but it would  
> also be
>
> reinventing a very flat wheel if one didn't examine past mistakes.
>
> About a
> month ago in a discussion with Shuddha I had put forward a  
> proposal
> for
> a South Asian Union that has been under discussion for several  
> years
>
> with friends from the region.  This would include Afghanistan,  
> Pakistan,
> Sri
> Lanka, India, Nepal, Bangladesh with the possibility of Tibet and  
>
> Burma as
> observer states.
>
> No takers on the list? Well, FYI by 2015 the
> governments of these  
> countries
> will have in place the South Asian Free
> Trade Agreement (SAFTA).   
> This push
> is obviously coming from the trade
> fraternity, but where does this  
> leave
> civil society? Why are we not
> responding creatively to something  
> which could
> potentially either become
> a trade agreement which would benefit only  
> big
> business, or something
> that could mean real freedom for the nearly 2  
> billion
> people in this
> region?
>
>
>> From: Vivek Narayanan <vivek at sarai.net>
>> Organization:
> Sarai
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:55:02 +0530
>> To:
> <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>, sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> Subject: Re:
> [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
>>
>> I did not say you wrote that
> Kshmendra, I said that I was given to
> understand
>> it that way from what
> you were saying.  Hence, the question
> mark in my note
>> below. Perhaps you
> are being a little too intelligently
> vague. In any case,
>> if you do think
> there are possibilities here beyond
> the nation state,
>> including beyond
> occupation by and assertion and
> domination of the Indian
>> nation state,
> I'd be very glad to hear of them.
>
> Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear
> Vivek
>>
>>
>>
>> Either I did not know what I was writing or you chose not
>>
> understand.
>> Either way that is unfortunate. You would not want that
>>
> happening with
>> you. Would you?
>>
>>
>>
>> Where in this particular
> thread
>> have I mentioned or suggested that :
>>
>>
>>
>> """"  any
> possible
>> "post-national" solution to the question of Kashmir
>> is
> hogwash,
>> dreamy,
>> silly, unthinkable"""""
>>
>>
>>
>> Once you answer
> that, I could (perhaps
>> tomorrow) address rest of what
>> you have
> written.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kshmendra
>>
>>
>
>
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