[Reader-list] desist from clicking 'send'

[Nazneen Anand Shamsi]

Dear Iram,

You amuse me. Not only you first post an advisory exhorting members to
desist from sending in 'substantial' materials but also you take upon
yourself to decide modalities of a public conversation that concerns
you. > PS: All future conversations regarding this will happen Off
list - at > least on my part.

Please tell me what's wrong in having a ':)' as the sole content of an
email. One could argue, that it is able to convey a lot more meaning
than, say five hundred words would. If you find it deeply disturbing
or lets say -unfair-, then were I to assume, that ALL those
conversations/forwards/postings etc which were loaded with words were
-fair- to you. I lost you here Iram, please tell, what do you mean by
-fair-. Do you ascribe to an overarching definition of fairness? Or
does it change from post to post?

I strongly disagree that  a 'mere' smiley (;)) could be considered as
'content less'. Given the umbrage of  'Shameless' mails, today, I
thought a mere :) signified something poignant. I am sure that many
people on this list would have understood the understated objective to
engage and yet be restrained.

I am sorry, if my mail seemed to question your entitlement to your
esteemed opinion. Which you have generously shared with us. But
please, and I need to be -educated- on this, please let me know as to
what exactly are > protocols that govern public forums and public
spaces >  Let us not assume things about each other. Let us be open.
And then let us expect things. And then bemoan if those expectations
are not fulfilled.

Hence going back on the issue of -protocols that govern public forums-
Can I read them anywhere? Does Sarai subscribes to an online journal
of public correctness or is it just your personal stance? How can I
access them? I don't find it offensive or intellectually degrading if
I were given a protocol book on fashioning of the self and its
presentation on online discussion forums. Rather I look forward to it.

Best

Nazo

PS: To be fair to you. Please don't be exasperated if in future, if
you see any more :) coming from intellectually illiterate persons like
yours truly.

PPS: Many thanks for letting me know that Sarai reader list could be
unsubscribed, I hope you could look into that too in case if the
volume of -unfair- mails are too large to handle.

PPP: I intend to have only ON LIST conversations with all or any
members of this list. I do not wish to hold any private conversations
with list members.




On 9/23/08, Iram Ghufran <iram at sarai.net> wrote:
> Dear Nazo
>
> Most list members do not have separate email accounts for various lists.
> If the contents of an email are " :-)  " , people feel that their co
> list member has not been fair to them.
>
> I have a right to hold an opinion as a 'list member' who happens to work
> at Sarai. I am grateful to Sarai and the people who ensure the smooth
> functioning of the list so that people can discuss, converse (and accuse
> and rebuke and insult). And before I go on, let me assure you that my
> views are my own - at Sarai we are allowed to have independent opinions.
>
> There are protocols that govern public forums and public spaces. I will
> not doubt your intelligence by trying to educate you on those. I am sure
> as a responsible citizen of a country, you would be well aware of those.
> Non moderation does not imply that the reader list becomes a forum for
> insults or worse a forum for content less emails.
> The reader list space is important to us. Its is as important to Shivam
> Vij, as it is to Aarti Sethi, who may at times hold differing opinions.
>
> It is possible, very much possible to disagree and not be unpleasant. It
> is also possible to be polite and very unpleasant.
> Please continue your discussion and discard my email - just as you have
> advised me to discard any that I do not find useful.
>
> All the best
> Iram
>
> (Co list member, with an equal share in the reader list Commons)
>
> PS: All future conversations regarding this will happen Off list - at
> least on my part.
>
> PPS: Its is very easy to unsubscribe from the reader list. Just drop an
> email to reader-list-owner at sarai.net
>
>
>
>
>
> Nazneen Anand Shamsi wrote:
>
>> Dear Iram,
>>
>> Thank you for your post. I wonder why are you concerned about how
>> people articulate their views. If this is a non-moderated forum for
>> discussion, then please let it be so. Personal rebukes/accusations/
>>
>> conversations will always be a part of any public conversations. One
>> cannot assume all those who post here will do so by implicitly
>> subscribing to an agreed upon public etiquette. Don't you think that
>> by writing periodic mails like the one below, you as a representative
>> of sarai, engage in doublespeak. Could I ask, with all due respects,
>> as to who are you, to assign an exchange as 'insulting', and how can
>> you categorize, an exchange as 'petty'.
>>
>> If there is a categorical database, which the list administrator
>> adheres to for archiving the list, then, don't you think that we, as
>> participants of this list are entitled to it. If there are any such
>> rules and regulations, then please share it with us. I am sure, all of
>> us, would be benefit from it. If you have no desire to witness any
>> witty comments, then, my dear, why don't you just delete all those
>> mails, like we do, instead of threatening us with your
>> assumed/imagined personal/organizational norms of decency.
>>
>> This issue with respect to language has come up on the list from time
>> to time. I want to take Iram's letter as an opportunity to ask to all
>> concerned, if language is such a big issue with list members, then
>> please drop this pretense of non-moderated publicness of this list.
>> Please make this list a private members only community, where, all
>> those of us who are articulate, respectful of each other may engage in
>> polite conversation.
>>
>> I would more than happy to be not included in this 'aap-jeenab' crowd.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Nazo.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Iram Ghufran <iram at sarai.net
>> <mailto:iram at sarai.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     Dear all
>>
>>     The Sarai reader-list is a non- moderated forum for discussion. I
>>     request you to please carry personal conversations/ accusations/
>>     rebukes
>>     OFF LIST.
>>
>>     I don't think the list administrator would want to archive for
>>     eternity
>>     some of the most petty insults that have been traded on this forum in
>>     the last few days. I have no desire to be a witness to any witty
>>     comments that people have to make in this game of one up-manship.
>>     I know
>>     that most people on this forum are very articulate and well read, so
>>     unless anyone has something substantial to say, please restrain
>>     yourself
>>     from clicking 'send'. But then who will decide 'substantial'? Well, I
>>     still have hope in everyones ability to gauge that!
>>
>>     And can we not do what the press is doing - a media trial. Not of the
>>     alleged terrorists, and not of the Delhi police. Let us also bear in
>>     mind as responsible citizens of the Republic (and correct me if I am
>>     wrong) that the Judiciary in this country holds a person innocent,
>>     until
>>     proven guilty. So I request people, upholders of the Constitution to
>>     please bear that in mind.
>>
>>     Please please spare the Inboxes of fourteen hundred people.
>>     Thank you.
>>     Iram
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>