[Reader-list] desist from clicking 'send'

[Nazneen Anand Shamsi]

_To quote Ghalib-

*******Har baat pe kahte ho tum ki tu kya hai
Tumhe kaho ke yeh andaaz-e-guftagoo kya hai*******

:)




On 9/23/08, Nazneen Anand Shamsi <nazoshmasi at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Dear Iram,
>
> You amuse me. Not only you first post an advisory exhorting members to
> desist from sending in 'substantial' materials but also you take upon
> yourself to decide modalities of a public conversation that concerns
> you. > PS: All future conversations regarding this will happen Off
> list - at > least on my part.
>
> Please tell me what's wrong in having a ':)' as the sole content of an
> email. One could argue, that it is able to convey a lot more meaning
> than, say five hundred words would. If you find it deeply disturbing
> or lets say -unfair-, then were I to assume, that ALL those
> conversations/forwards/postings etc which were loaded with words were
> -fair- to you. I lost you here Iram, please tell, what do you mean by
> -fair-. Do you ascribe to an overarching definition of fairness? Or
> does it change from post to post?
>
> I strongly disagree that  a 'mere' smiley (;)) could be considered as
> 'content less'. Given the umbrage of  'Shameless' mails, today, I
> thought a mere :) signified something poignant. I am sure that many
> people on this list would have understood the understated objective to
> engage and yet be restrained.
>
> I am sorry, if my mail seemed to question your entitlement to your
> esteemed opinion. Which you have generously shared with us. But
> please, and I need to be -educated- on this, please let me know as to
> what exactly are > protocols that govern public forums and public
> spaces >  Let us not assume things about each other. Let us be open.
> And then let us expect things. And then bemoan if those expectations
> are not fulfilled.
>
> Hence going back on the issue of -protocols that govern public forums-
> Can I read them anywhere? Does Sarai subscribes to an online journal
> of public correctness or is it just your personal stance? How can I
> access them? I don't find it offensive or intellectually degrading if
> I were given a protocol book on fashioning of the self and its
> presentation on online discussion forums. Rather I look forward to it.
>
> Best
>
> Nazo
>
> PS: To be fair to you. Please don't be exasperated if in future, if
> you see any more :) coming from intellectually illiterate persons like
> yours truly.
>
> PPS: Many thanks for letting me know that Sarai reader list could be
> unsubscribed, I hope you could look into that too in case if the
> volume of -unfair- mails are too large to handle.
>
> PPP: I intend to have only ON LIST conversations with all or any
> members of this list. I do not wish to hold any private conversations
> with list members.
>
>
>
>
> On 9/23/08, Iram Ghufran <iram at sarai.net> wrote:
>> Dear Nazo
>>
>> Most list members do not have separate email accounts for various lists.
>> If the contents of an email are " :-)  " , people feel that their co
>> list member has not been fair to them.
>>
>> I have a right to hold an opinion as a 'list member' who happens to work
>> at Sarai. I am grateful to Sarai and the people who ensure the smooth
>> functioning of the list so that people can discuss, converse (and accuse
>> and rebuke and insult). And before I go on, let me assure you that my
>> views are my own - at Sarai we are allowed to have independent opinions.
>>
>> There are protocols that govern public forums and public spaces. I will
>> not doubt your intelligence by trying to educate you on those. I am sure
>> as a responsible citizen of a country, you would be well aware of those.
>> Non moderation does not imply that the reader list becomes a forum for
>> insults or worse a forum for content less emails.
>> The reader list space is important to us. Its is as important to Shivam
>> Vij, as it is to Aarti Sethi, who may at times hold differing opinions.
>>
>> It is possible, very much possible to disagree and not be unpleasant. It
>> is also possible to be polite and very unpleasant.
>> Please continue your discussion and discard my email - just as you have
>> advised me to discard any that I do not find useful.
>>
>> All the best
>> Iram
>>
>> (Co list member, with an equal share in the reader list Commons)
>>
>> PS: All future conversations regarding this will happen Off list - at
>> least on my part.
>>
>> PPS: Its is very easy to unsubscribe from the reader list. Just drop an
>> email to reader-list-owner at sarai.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nazneen Anand Shamsi wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Iram,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your post. I wonder why are you concerned about how
>>> people articulate their views. If this is a non-moderated forum for
>>> discussion, then please let it be so. Personal rebukes/accusations/
>>>
>>> conversations will always be a part of any public conversations. One
>>> cannot assume all those who post here will do so by implicitly
>>> subscribing to an agreed upon public etiquette. Don't you think that
>>> by writing periodic mails like the one below, you as a representative
>>> of sarai, engage in doublespeak. Could I ask, with all due respects,
>>> as to who are you, to assign an exchange as 'insulting', and how can
>>> you categorize, an exchange as 'petty'.
>>>
>>> If there is a categorical database, which the list administrator
>>> adheres to for archiving the list, then, don't you think that we, as
>>> participants of this list are entitled to it. If there are any such
>>> rules and regulations, then please share it with us. I am sure, all of
>>> us, would be benefit from it. If you have no desire to witness any
>>> witty comments, then, my dear, why don't you just delete all those
>>> mails, like we do, instead of threatening us with your
>>> assumed/imagined personal/organizational norms of decency.
>>>
>>> This issue with respect to language has come up on the list from time
>>> to time. I want to take Iram's letter as an opportunity to ask to all
>>> concerned, if language is such a big issue with list members, then
>>> please drop this pretense of non-moderated publicness of this list.
>>> Please make this list a private members only community, where, all
>>> those of us who are articulate, respectful of each other may engage in
>>> polite conversation.
>>>
>>> I would more than happy to be not included in this 'aap-jeenab' crowd.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Nazo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Iram Ghufran <iram at sarai.net
>>> <mailto:iram at sarai.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Dear all
>>>
>>>     The Sarai reader-list is a non- moderated forum for discussion. I
>>>     request you to please carry personal conversations/ accusations/
>>>     rebukes
>>>     OFF LIST.
>>>
>>>     I don't think the list administrator would want to archive for
>>>     eternity
>>>     some of the most petty insults that have been traded on this forum in
>>>     the last few days. I have no desire to be a witness to any witty
>>>     comments that people have to make in this game of one up-manship.
>>>     I know
>>>     that most people on this forum are very articulate and well read, so
>>>     unless anyone has something substantial to say, please restrain
>>>     yourself
>>>     from clicking 'send'. But then who will decide 'substantial'? Well, I
>>>     still have hope in everyones ability to gauge that!
>>>
>>>     And can we not do what the press is doing - a media trial. Not of the
>>>     alleged terrorists, and not of the Delhi police. Let us also bear in
>>>     mind as responsible citizens of the Republic (and correct me if I am
>>>     wrong) that the Judiciary in this country holds a person innocent,
>>>     until
>>>     proven guilty. So I request people, upholders of the Constitution to
>>>     please bear that in mind.
>>>
>>>     Please please spare the Inboxes of fourteen hundred people.
>>>     Thank you.
>>>     Iram
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     _________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>