[Reader-list] desist from clicking 'send'

[Nazneen Anand Shamsi]

Dear Iram,

Thank you for sending me an OFF LIST post, but as I have mentioned
earlier, I will only engage in ON LIST conversations, so I
respectfully beg your pardon for this mail.

Lets get to the point. You mention that you had no 'desire' to
'educate' people, then why take the trouble to ask people to do or not
to do a certain thing. Why ask people to 'desist'. Why instead of
responding to the content of a post you choose to take a 'moral high
ground' and correct people about the nature of their posts. Be it in
terms of their volume, '45 mails', tenor- 'exercise restrained', or
you perceived sense of justice, 'unfair'. If reader list a a public
forum for debate and discussion which is not moderated by choice, then
how does one validates you or anyone's angst, anger and stance to
'correct' people on how they speak.

On a broad level, if public propriety is expected from all list
members, then wouldn't it be nice if we are told the rules of
engagement. When on one level Sarai, valorizes notions of 'fearless
speech and fearless listening' and on the other, its members, in their
'individual capacity', ask people to 'desist' or 'keep restrained',
then don't you think that this practice is sending out a wrong
message. For me, to begin with, I am at a wits end to understand where
exactly your opinions emanating from individual identity ends and
where your views influenced by organizational identity begins.

I have greatly benefited from discussions and debates on the
reader-list, both in terms of an exposure to differing world views and
assessing how people articulate their concerns. If Sarai in its
generosity has provided us with an online platform for discussion and
debate and if it has agreed to let it go un-moderated, then don't you
think that by asking people to 'shut up' (as aarti did the other day
but of course she is not a member of Sarai) and to 'exercise
restrained', you are going against, what I would conjecture as, the
foundational spirit of setting up reader list.

What is wrong in dropping this pretense of 'non moderation' and
placing in the public domain, a set of regulations, codes and
behavioral norms for rules of engagement. Even the parliament of India
as in every parliament, as in every formal institution of this world
has it. The message that goes out by exercises like yours is this-
that Sarai welcomes, discussion and debate and will tolerate the
utterance of those whom it disagrees but only up to a level. Sarai
will not dis-engage and debar them for Sarai needs to keep a public
pretense of engagement in critical discourse and non moderation but it
will certainly raise its eyebrows and quietly nudge all those who do
not utter by choice or by intellectual sophistication, in a manner,
which is perceived, to be decent, fair and restrained, by Sarai
standards. Ofcourse, there will never be official condemnation of
these acts. People only in their individual capacity with identities,
that often end with ' @sarai.net ', will respond.

I would humbly suggest you to ask all those concerned at Sarai, to
stop this hypocrisy of non-moderation and come out with an imaginative
set of rules, regulations and codes of engagement. When I read posts
on reader list, I am not at all surprised or distressed or appalled to
find extremely illuminating writings  sitting comfortably with, what
can thought of as completely disgusting literature. I read those mails
in the spirit of 'non-moderation'. And then to find in my inbox,
'corrective' reminders from self appointed keepers of public
correctness...well it is slightly disconcerting.

In solidarity.

Nazo

PS: *********Kuch toh log kahenge
                  logon ka kaam hai kehna********

On 9/23/08, Iram Ghufran <iram at sarai.net> wrote:
> Dear Nazo
> I sent a general emailer in response to 45 reader list messages in my
> Inbox yesterday. This issue has been raised by various members in the
> past and some people were asked by the list admin to exercise restraint
> before shooting of emails - in the nature of google chat.
> I have no desire to 'educate' people - another day Nazo - when I have
> the time and the inclination.
>
>> PPS: Many thanks for letting me know that Sarai reader list could be
>> unsubscribed, I hope you could look into that too in case if the
>> volume of -unfair- mails are too large to handle.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for the advise. I will definitely keep that mind.
> Best
> Iram
>
>
>>
>> On 9/23/08, Iram Ghufran <iram at sarai.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Nazo
>>>
>>> Most list members do not have separate email accounts for various lists.
>>> If the contents of an email are " :-)  " , people feel that their co
>>> list member has not been fair to them.
>>>
>>> I have a right to hold an opinion as a 'list member' who happens to work
>>> at Sarai. I am grateful to Sarai and the people who ensure the smooth
>>> functioning of the list so that people can discuss, converse (and accuse
>>> and rebuke and insult). And before I go on, let me assure you that my
>>> views are my own - at Sarai we are allowed to have independent opinions.
>>>
>>> There are protocols that govern public forums and public spaces. I will
>>> not doubt your intelligence by trying to educate you on those. I am sure
>>> as a responsible citizen of a country, you would be well aware of those.
>>> Non moderation does not imply that the reader list becomes a forum for
>>> insults or worse a forum for content less emails.
>>> The reader list space is important to us. Its is as important to Shivam
>>> Vij, as it is to Aarti Sethi, who may at times hold differing opinions.
>>>
>>> It is possible, very much possible to disagree and not be unpleasant. It
>>> is also possible to be polite and very unpleasant.
>>> Please continue your discussion and discard my email - just as you have
>>> advised me to discard any that I do not find useful.
>>>
>>> All the best
>>> Iram
>>>
>>> (Co list member, with an equal share in the reader list Commons)
>>>
>>> PS: All future conversations regarding this will happen Off list - at
>>> least on my part.
>>>
>>> PPS: Its is very easy to unsubscribe from the reader list. Just drop an
>>> email to reader-list-owner at sarai.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nazneen Anand Shamsi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Iram,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your post. I wonder why are you concerned about how
>>>> people articulate their views. If this is a non-moderated forum for
>>>> discussion, then please let it be so. Personal rebukes/accusations/
>>>>
>>>> conversations will always be a part of any public conversations. One
>>>> cannot assume all those who post here will do so by implicitly
>>>> subscribing to an agreed upon public etiquette. Don't you think that
>>>> by writing periodic mails like the one below, you as a representative
>>>> of sarai, engage in doublespeak. Could I ask, with all due respects,
>>>> as to who are you, to assign an exchange as 'insulting', and how can
>>>> you categorize, an exchange as 'petty'.
>>>>
>>>> If there is a categorical database, which the list administrator
>>>> adheres to for archiving the list, then, don't you think that we, as
>>>> participants of this list are entitled to it. If there are any such
>>>> rules and regulations, then please share it with us. I am sure, all of
>>>> us, would be benefit from it. If you have no desire to witness any
>>>> witty comments, then, my dear, why don't you just delete all those
>>>> mails, like we do, instead of threatening us with your
>>>> assumed/imagined personal/organizational norms of decency.
>>>>
>>>> This issue with respect to language has come up on the list from time
>>>> to time. I want to take Iram's letter as an opportunity to ask to all
>>>> concerned, if language is such a big issue with list members, then
>>>> please drop this pretense of non-moderated publicness of this list.
>>>> Please make this list a private members only community, where, all
>>>> those of us who are articulate, respectful of each other may engage in
>>>> polite conversation.
>>>>
>>>> I would more than happy to be not included in this 'aap-jeenab' crowd.
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>>
>>>> Nazo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Iram Ghufran <iram at sarai.net
>>>> <mailto:iram at sarai.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Dear all
>>>>
>>>>     The Sarai reader-list is a non- moderated forum for discussion. I
>>>>     request you to please carry personal conversations/ accusations/
>>>>     rebukes
>>>>     OFF LIST.
>>>>
>>>>     I don't think the list administrator would want to archive for
>>>>     eternity
>>>>     some of the most petty insults that have been traded on this forum
>>>> in
>>>>     the last few days. I have no desire to be a witness to any witty
>>>>     comments that people have to make in this game of one up-manship.
>>>>     I know
>>>>     that most people on this forum are very articulate and well read, so
>>>>     unless anyone has something substantial to say, please restrain
>>>>     yourself
>>>>     from clicking 'send'. But then who will decide 'substantial'? Well,
>>>> I
>>>>     still have hope in everyones ability to gauge that!
>>>>
>>>>     And can we not do what the press is doing - a media trial. Not of
>>>> the
>>>>     alleged terrorists, and not of the Delhi police. Let us also bear in
>>>>     mind as responsible citizens of the Republic (and correct me if I am
>>>>     wrong) that the Judiciary in this country holds a person innocent,
>>>>     until
>>>>     proven guilty. So I request people, upholders of the Constitution to
>>>>     please bear that in mind.
>>>>
>>>>     Please please spare the Inboxes of fourteen hundred people.
>>>>     Thank you.
>>>>     Iram
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _________________________________________
>>>>     reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>