[Reader-list] Jamia Millia should be prosecuted

Sun Sep 28 00:51:40 IST 2008

Dear Iram,

What a pleasant surprise! I was not expecting your response untill later,
since you mentioned something about unavailability of email access. Anyways!

I would rather skip your passage about list admin and 'prescriptions', I
just wanted to make a point which was this- that just as you want other
members of this list to 'desist from clicking send', because you want them
to respect some un-written modalities of engagement, so would I, in my
personal capacity want others to at least acknowledge some written
modalities of engagement. It seems, all of us here- the writers, the
responders and the readers fail sometimes to appreciate this. We would
always want to engage with others on our own terms don't we. Please be
patient before sending those 'desist' mails if you in your personal capacity
cannot resist from engaging others on their terms. Just because a particular
address is available on an internet serach engine! Preciesly the kind of
attitude demostrated by some of our co-members just because there are no
argument-filters on readerlist. Please show some respect first and then
expect.

Otherwise chart out clear, no-nonsense rules of engagement. I am all for a
regulatory code of conduct for Sarai Reader-list.

 I just want to make a point. No bad feelings. Consider it white noise and
lets move on.

Unless you wish to take this exchange forward...

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Regarding your response-

Let me rephrase your position- you 'suggest' concerend parties involved with
the unfortunate Jamia blasts to 'consider' an option to make autonomous
committies on lines of All India Defence Council constituted for a fair
trail for SAR.

To quote you
-I feel that an autonomous body (perhaps with University support - Jamia,
JNU and DU) should be set up - that provides legal aid and counseling to
students. The Universities can provide financial support to such a body,
the students can contribute and raise independent funding. This is a
tentative proposition which has had precedent in various forms of
Committees for Defense for people accused of 'crimes' against the 'State'-

Hypothetically if the  three universities of Delhi need to come together to
form an autonomous set up, then, I would think that they could do so only
by, exploring options available to them under the UGC. No university can
spend its money other wise. Even if UGC grants them such a permission then
it would result in creation of a formal insitution. Because every single
paisa has to be accounted for. Proper procedure needs to be put in place to
process issues related to hierarchy, settling disputes etc. This institution
is would as autonomous as CBI is. This is common sense insofar as any
dispensement of monies with respect to a state institution is concerned.
Even though you may not have wanted this, but unfortunately the wordings of
your argument suggest otherwise.

Regarding Salman Khurshid. Lets's enumerate what does he signify. First he
is a politician, second he is muslim, third he is a practising supreme court
lawyer, fourth he is rich, and fifth he exercises a far more social
influential as compared to a son of man from azamgarh would. That is why
perhaps, I was in total agreement to dispense aid vis-a-vis social position
in this instance. I still do.

With respect to my opinion regarding the use of same logic to dispense aid
based on social position and not on caste, I would suggest that we talk
about it. Because I find the use of categories to classify caste
problematic. I think there needs to be more debate before we could even
begin to explore the issue. However, I will not persuade anyone to
universalise one's thinking, insomuch as one is blind to the merits of a
case. I believe the caste issue, particularly in India, is a separate issue
and cannot in any way compared to Jamia blasts. Hence an overaching common
argument does not hold.

Regarding Chandramohan's argument. You will recall that in my first response
to your mail on this thread, I had specifically mentioned the names of
Satyendra Dubey and Manjunath. Both these were ex-students of their
colleges, both were involved in activities that lie outside the purview of
thier institutions and both of them were killed. Yet the directors of their
former institution took an initiative to help set up formal bodies to
advocate justice for them. Just as Prof.Hasan has decided to do so.

I have no objections, none whatsoever, if bodies like AIDC are set up to
defend and insist on a fair trail for these blasts accused. However, in the
non-event of setting up of such a body, I welcome the initiative taken up by
Prof.Hasan and wish that accused will be given a fair trial.

I send you and everyone else on this list good wishes for festivities next
week.

Best

Nazo

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 3:16 PM, <iram at sarai.net> wrote:

> Dear Nazo
>
> Thank you for being concerned. Iram has reached her destination safely.
>
> The list admin cannot do anything about off list responses. Your mail id is
> accessible on an internet search engine and you cant ask the sarai list
> admin to 'regulate' who writes to you. It is a risk we all take when we
> write on a public forum. However, many people, in order to avoid this
> 'spamming' and 'irritation' use aliases. However, I am sure you dont need
> any prescriptions on that from me. Now, coming to your mail:
>
> I am not 'pushing' for an institutional framework for dispensing aid to the
> arrested students of Jamia Millia. I am 'suggesting' as one other option,
> for people to 'consider' - an autonomous body, that lies "outside the
> institutional framework" of the University.
>
> I am not satisfied by the VC's justification for promising to provide aid
> on behalf of the University. And Your justification for 'dispensing aid',
> based on 'social position' doesnt hold(your example of Salman Khurshid
> suggests the financial status of the family). I wonder what your opinion is
> if the same logic is applied to the Reservation policy in this country. Aid
> based on social position? Reservation based on financial position and not
> by virtue of caste? Was it not possible for the VC to arrange financial aid
> to the arrested students outside the institutional framework of the Jamia
> Millia Islamia University? If it was, the then I see his action bordering
> on a 'gesture'. I understand that there is some gesturial value to this
> decision, but what else?
>
> I am sure that you know that Chandra Mohan was an art student at MSU
> Baroda. He was attacked because of the work he produced under the aegis of
> the University. I will understand if the Jamia Millia chooses to support
> and provide legal aid to a PhD scholar, if his/her PhD comes under public
> critique.
>
> I hope you understand that it is not my intention to 'convince' you to my
> line of thinking. I feel its important to look at this unfortunate series
> of events from all possible perspectives. In fact, I would like to
> understand your ideas on 'institutional frameworks' and 'legal aid' more
> clearly. Do you think a body like the the "All India Defence Committee for
> S.A.R. Geelani" wouldnt work in this case?
>
> Looking forward
> Best
> Iram
>
>
>
> On 7:26 am 09/27/08 "Nazneen Anand Shamsi" <nazoshmasi at googlemail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Iram, Dear List admin,
> >
> > You may find this a little irritating, but I am sorry, I have stated
> > this earlier and I am stating it again now, please refrain from any
> > off-list conversations with me, for I do not want to engage with any
> > members of this list in other fashion except in the form of a public
> > dialogue. For all future reference, if one does not see any point  in
> > announcing something to everyone, then, please, spare me from such
> > announcements.
> >
> > Having said that, I eagerly look forward for iram&#39;s  response and
> > I hope that she has a safe journey!
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Nazo
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Iram Ghufran  wrote:
> > Dear Nazo
> > Another off list response - I see no point in announcing to everyone
> > that I have a train to catch in a few hrs and will not have email
> > access for  a few days. Will read your mail with care and respond
> > soon. All the best
> > Iram
> >
> >
> > Nazneen Anand Shamsi wrote:
> >
> > Dear Iram,
> >
> > Thank you for your clarification apropos Taraprakash&#39;s mail.
> > Allow me to add my two bit. Please tell me, why are you again and again
> > pushing for an institutional framework for dispensing aid? I find this
> > thinking paranoid and extremely dangerous, because, it tends to
> > normalizes, fear and insecurity on one hand and routinizes suspicion on
> > the other.
> >
> > Regarding your second argument, I don&#39;t know, whether there can
> > be a bigger interest for an educational institution than to take care
> > of its students and help the most vulnerable of its lot in the time of
> need. Clearly, the students, have agreed to accept university&#39;&#39;s
> >   aid because they can&#39;t afford any other higher legal assistance. I
> >  am sure, as a matter of saying, if for instance,Salman Khurshid&#39;s c
> > hild would have to undergo same circumstances, he would surely have not
> > availed of any legal aid from any university of this world, by virtue of
> >  his higher social position. Likewise a VC of Jamia helping its student
> > can be regarded a case of &#39;Muslim&#39; helping fellow &#39;Muslim&#3
> > 9; only by those who consider an aid given to Chnadra mohan by Baroda un
> > iversity as a case of a &#39;Hindu&#39; helping a fellow &#39;Hindu&#39;
> > . And the less is said about the &#39;muslimness&#39; of Prof. Hasan is
> > better.
> >
> > I do not want to respond to your emotional plea for careful,
> > considered responses because I feel that all responses, be it in a
> > situation of crises or otherwise must be careful and considered,
> > especially on a public non-moderated list like this one.
> >
> > However I would urge you to articulate your position further.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Nazo
>
>