[Reader-list] Communism Or Terrorism? -Kamala Sarup

[Pawan Durani]

Hi Partha,
If you dont love India, the passport application doesnt take much time these
days.

Enjoy !

pawan

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Pawan,
> For me to honour / love a person, concept or place, the person or place /
> concept has to be worthy of that honour.
>
> To continue in that thought, love the India that I believe in. The India
> which assimilated the Greeks, the Romans, the Mughals, the Portugese and the
> British and a host of other people & civilisations that came
> as visitors& conquerors and traders.
>
> What I see today as an exclusive rather than an inclusive India saddens me,
> and reduces my faith in the legislative, judiciary and administrative arms
> of this country as well as the closed mindsets that seem to be becoming the
> rule rather than an exception.
>
> And let us not forget that the process is driven by people at the end of
> the day. Blind faith with out questioning will lead to the same corruption
> that is slowly coming out in the open because of the RTI and the pervasive
> media.
>
> What do you believe?
>
> Rgds, Partha
> .................................................
>
> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> What about the first line ? You like it ?
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> And I love the rest of the lines
>>>
>>> "Therefore, the other half of the approach for answering this question is
>>> that governments and their leaders must honor and respect their people as
>>> well. They can do this by publicly declaring the democratic freedoms (such
>>> as the freedoms of speech, press, and religion) that their countrymen
>>> possess and by transparently and consistently honoring these freedoms all
>>> the time. One way that governments may do this is by establishing and
>>> developing stable and fair legal and courts systems."
>>>
>>> Rgds, Partha
>>> ..............................
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, I love the first line ""If people cannot honor and love their
>>>> country then their country cannot love them."
>>>> God Bless
>>>>
>>>> Pawan
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "If people cannot honor and love their country then their country
>>>>> cannot love
>>>>> them. Therefore, the other half of the approach for answering this
>>>>> question
>>>>> is that governments and their leaders must honor and respect their
>>>>> people as
>>>>> well. They can do this by publicly declaring the democratic freedoms
>>>>> (such
>>>>> as the freedoms of speech, press, and religion) that their countrymen
>>>>> possess and by transparently and consistently honoring these freedoms
>>>>> all
>>>>> the time. One way that governments may do this is by establishing and
>>>>> developing stable and fair legal and courts systems."
>>>>>
>>>>> Just quoting the concluding para from the article you posted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Think about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rgds, Partha
>>>>> ...............................
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00099.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Communism Or Terrorism?
>>>>>> By Kamala Sarup <http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00099.htm#a>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will define terrorism as "the murder of innocents", i.e.,
>>>>>> non-military,
>>>>>> non-police, and non-politicians. Thus defined, perhaps
>>>>>> communists/maoists in
>>>>>> some countries practice terrorism, e.g., Peru and Columbia, but not
>>>>>> all. I
>>>>>> don't associate the former Russian and East European brands of
>>>>>> communism
>>>>>> with terrorism. The separatists in Ireland and Spain are terrorists,
>>>>>> but not
>>>>>> communists. Muslim terrorists are not communists, generally. Radical
>>>>>> Muslim
>>>>>> terrorists are not communists, generally. I don't see the connection
>>>>>> between
>>>>>> the two terms. But It is widely known that why communism meant in
>>>>>> practice
>>>>>> bloody terrorism and forced labor?.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the other hand, we have much evidence that a communist economic
>>>>>> system is
>>>>>> associated with an authoritarian government system, which means that a
>>>>>> government elite enhances its economic, judicial and political
>>>>>> freedoms and
>>>>>> suppresses those who are led by them. There is no theoretical reason
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> communism to be associated with authoritarianism, but in fact it is
>>>>>> and has
>>>>>> always been that way. Democratic-communistic societies have always
>>>>>> been very
>>>>>> small and very short-lived, so I have no hope that one will ever exist
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> very long in the future anywhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the leaders (meaning the government) of countries promote education
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> values that emphasize national and international identification rather
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> ethnic, religious, tribal or clan identification, then the ethnic,
>>>>>> religious, tribal and clan conflicts will diminish, in the long run.
>>>>>> If they
>>>>>> promote sufficient economic, judicial and political equality, then the
>>>>>> people at the bottom of the ladder will not want to topple those at
>>>>>> the top.
>>>>>> The results of reducing conflict are that when people engage in
>>>>>> production
>>>>>> and art rather than war, then the killing and maiming are reduced and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> general living standards are increased and people are more satisfied.
>>>>>> However, people are ignorant, aggressive and acquisitive, so some
>>>>>> conflict
>>>>>> will always remain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, some internal conflict, including wars, will always exist in
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> country. If we study U.S. or any European country history, we will
>>>>>> find
>>>>>> continued bloody and non-bloody conflicts. However, since 1945, the
>>>>>> end of
>>>>>> WW II, they have been relatively peaceful, both internally and
>>>>>> externally.
>>>>>> Will they remain so for the indefinite future? We and our children
>>>>>> will see!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After the communists took over power by destroying democracy and
>>>>>> monarchy,
>>>>>> Combodia, Ethiopia, and Afganistan became weak economically and
>>>>>> politically.
>>>>>> Nepal has to learn from these countries. Now, the situation in
>>>>>> Combodia is
>>>>>> getting better because the Cambodian people brought back multiparty
>>>>>> democracy and constitutional monarchy by ousting the Maoist Khmer
>>>>>> Rouge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Twenty-nine years after the communist took over the power in Ethiopia
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the King, Jahir Shah, was sent out of Afghanistan, the people have
>>>>>> suffered
>>>>>> immensely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I am saying about the Maoist guerrilla issue is that the question
>>>>>> should not be which government system is better, mine or yours."
>>>>>> Trying to
>>>>>> answer this question will only lead to chaos and hatred, death and
>>>>>> destruction, violence and murder. Why take that deadly path? A better
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> more practical way to approach this problem by first realizing that
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> people everywhere on earth need to focus on loving their country
>>>>>> (wherever
>>>>>> that country may be). Similarly they should have respect for their
>>>>>> leaders
>>>>>> and governments, and on having a greater pride in the land in which
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> live and call home.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This world's economy revolves around and even depends upon stable
>>>>>> governments everywhere. If each individual was to do his or her civic
>>>>>> duty
>>>>>> by honoring his or her home country, then economies would be built up
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> process. For example, exercising their voting rights by voting in
>>>>>> greater
>>>>>> numbers during elections, increasing their loyalty to their companies
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> looking for more ways to being productive, and most importantly,
>>>>>> honoring
>>>>>> their father and mother, sisters and brothers, friends and neighbors
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> ways to make up a better nation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An effective way to deliver a just government system is by building
>>>>>> one that
>>>>>> possesses a mature checks and balance system, one that limits the
>>>>>> effects of
>>>>>> corruption and therefore helps to protect the civil rights of every
>>>>>> citizen
>>>>>> of the country. It's time for the people to stop looking in envy to
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> lands to satisfy their idea of a desirable place to be, to stop
>>>>>> looking to
>>>>>> other countries to find their ideal home. It's time for the people to
>>>>>> look
>>>>>> to their own homes, their own families, and their own communities to
>>>>>> realize
>>>>>> how valuable and precious their own land really is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Six million Ukrainians two million Cambodians, millions of North
>>>>>> Koreans,
>>>>>> millions in Zimbabwe and in Tito's Yugoslavia are starving to death
>>>>>> right
>>>>>> now. The total population of Cambodia, Turkey, Iran, or Argentina had
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> lose their life or suffer from starvation, malnutrition and
>>>>>> undiagnosed or
>>>>>> mistreated illnesses. Millions are uncounted for, incarcerated and
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> starved to death or died due to exposure. Communists believed that
>>>>>> Marxism
>>>>>> would bring about the greatest human welfare and power must be used to
>>>>>> tear
>>>>>> down the feudal or capitalist order but in practice, this system did
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> improve the lot of the average person, instead it usually made their
>>>>>> living
>>>>>> conditions worse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is really sad to know that some 100 million people worldwide lost
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> lives to the ideological scourge of communism after 1917. They include
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> victims of Stalin's terror, victims of the Chinese Cultural
>>>>>> Revolution;
>>>>>> victims of the Cambodian genocide; victims of the Latin American and
>>>>>> Cuban
>>>>>> civil wars; East and Central Europeans dying in the uprisings of 1953,
>>>>>> 1956
>>>>>> and 1968 against their communist rulers. Communists also committed
>>>>>> genocide.
>>>>>> Genocide is the killing of people because of their ethnicity, race,
>>>>>> religion, or language.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Combodian citizen stated to local media that "Khmer Rouge said they
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> creating a utopian nation where everyone would be equal but while the
>>>>>> entire
>>>>>> population was dying of starvation and disease, the Khmer Rouge
>>>>>> soldiers and
>>>>>> the communist party members were able to choose any woman or man they
>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>> to marry. In addition to limitless food, they were also crazy about
>>>>>> gold,
>>>>>> jewelry, perfume, imported watches, western medicine, cars,
>>>>>> motorcycles,
>>>>>> bicycles, silk, and other imported goods. I cannot forget how one
>>>>>> woman was
>>>>>> forced to cook her husband's liver, which was cut out while he was
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> alive. Women were raped before execution. In fact, every day, every
>>>>>> minute
>>>>>> the communists step on the rights of people like us, debase our values
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> restrict our freedoms. Communism and terrorism have a mutual aim."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most deadly of all communist countries has been Cambodia under the
>>>>>> Khmer
>>>>>> Rouge. They killed some 2 million Cambodians. The Soviet Union appears
>>>>>> to be
>>>>>> the greatest murderer of all, apparently killing near 61,000,000
>>>>>> people.
>>>>>> Stalin himself is responsible for almost 43,000,000 of these brutal
>>>>>> killings. Most of the deaths, perhaps around 39,000,000 were due to
>>>>>> lethal
>>>>>> forced labor in the gulag and transit there to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As most communist governments underwent increasing liberalization and
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> loosening of centralized power in the 1960s through the 1980s, the
>>>>>> pace of
>>>>>> killing dropped off sharply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If people cannot honor and love their country then their country
>>>>>> cannot love
>>>>>> them. Therefore, the other half of the approach for answering this
>>>>>> question
>>>>>> is that governments and their leaders must honor and respect their
>>>>>> people as
>>>>>> well. They can do this by publicly declaring the democratic freedoms
>>>>>> (such
>>>>>> as the freedoms of speech, press, and religion) that their countrymen
>>>>>> possess and by transparently and consistently honoring these freedoms
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> the time. One way that governments may do this is by establishing and
>>>>>> developing stable and fair legal and courts systems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, many Nepalese want peace at any price. We don't know how high the
>>>>>> price
>>>>>> was that we have to pay for the Maoist's peace?.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *************
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ( Kamaal Sarup is editor of http://peacejournalism.com/ )
>>>>>> _________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Partha Dasgupta
>>>>> +919811047132
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Partha Dasgupta
>>> +919811047132
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Partha Dasgupta
> +919811047132
>