[Reader-list] Communism Or Terrorism? -Kamala Sarup

[Partha Dasgupta]

Hi Pawan,
For me to honour / love a person, concept or place, the person or place /
concept has to be worthy of that honour.

To continue in that thought, love the India that I believe in. The India
which assimilated the Greeks, the Romans, the Mughals, the Portugese and the
British and a host of other people & civilisations that came
as visitors& conquerors and traders.

What I see today as an exclusive rather than an inclusive India saddens me,
and reduces my faith in the legislative, judiciary and administrative arms
of this country as well as the closed mindsets that seem to be becoming the
rule rather than an exception.

And let us not forget that the process is driven by people at the end of the
day. Blind faith with out questioning will lead to the same corruption that
is slowly coming out in the open because of the RTI and the pervasive media.

What do you believe?

Rgds, Partha
.................................................
On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:

> What about the first line ? You like it ?
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> And I love the rest of the lines
>>
>> "Therefore, the other half of the approach for answering this question is
>> that governments and their leaders must honor and respect their people as
>> well. They can do this by publicly declaring the democratic freedoms (such
>> as the freedoms of speech, press, and religion) that their countrymen
>> possess and by transparently and consistently honoring these freedoms all
>> the time. One way that governments may do this is by establishing and
>> developing stable and fair legal and courts systems."
>>
>> Rgds, Partha
>> ..............................
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I love the first line ""If people cannot honor and love their
>>> country then their country cannot love them."
>>> God Bless
>>>
>>> Pawan
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> "If people cannot honor and love their country then their country cannot
>>>> love
>>>> them. Therefore, the other half of the approach for answering this
>>>> question
>>>> is that governments and their leaders must honor and respect their
>>>> people as
>>>> well. They can do this by publicly declaring the democratic freedoms
>>>> (such
>>>> as the freedoms of speech, press, and religion) that their countrymen
>>>> possess and by transparently and consistently honoring these freedoms
>>>> all
>>>> the time. One way that governments may do this is by establishing and
>>>> developing stable and fair legal and courts systems."
>>>>
>>>> Just quoting the concluding para from the article you posted.
>>>>
>>>> Think about it.
>>>>
>>>> Rgds, Partha
>>>> ...............................
>>>>
>>>>  On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00099.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Communism Or Terrorism?
>>>>> By Kamala Sarup <http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00099.htm#a>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I will define terrorism as "the murder of innocents", i.e.,
>>>>> non-military,
>>>>> non-police, and non-politicians. Thus defined, perhaps
>>>>> communists/maoists in
>>>>> some countries practice terrorism, e.g., Peru and Columbia, but not
>>>>> all. I
>>>>> don't associate the former Russian and East European brands of
>>>>> communism
>>>>> with terrorism. The separatists in Ireland and Spain are terrorists,
>>>>> but not
>>>>> communists. Muslim terrorists are not communists, generally. Radical
>>>>> Muslim
>>>>> terrorists are not communists, generally. I don't see the connection
>>>>> between
>>>>> the two terms. But It is widely known that why communism meant in
>>>>> practice
>>>>> bloody terrorism and forced labor?.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, we have much evidence that a communist economic
>>>>> system is
>>>>> associated with an authoritarian government system, which means that a
>>>>> government elite enhances its economic, judicial and political freedoms
>>>>> and
>>>>> suppresses those who are led by them. There is no theoretical reason
>>>>> for
>>>>> communism to be associated with authoritarianism, but in fact it is and
>>>>> has
>>>>> always been that way. Democratic-communistic societies have always been
>>>>> very
>>>>> small and very short-lived, so I have no hope that one will ever exist
>>>>> for
>>>>> very long in the future anywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the leaders (meaning the government) of countries promote education
>>>>> and
>>>>> values that emphasize national and international identification rather
>>>>> than
>>>>> ethnic, religious, tribal or clan identification, then the ethnic,
>>>>> religious, tribal and clan conflicts will diminish, in the long run. If
>>>>> they
>>>>> promote sufficient economic, judicial and political equality, then the
>>>>> people at the bottom of the ladder will not want to topple those at the
>>>>> top.
>>>>> The results of reducing conflict are that when people engage in
>>>>> production
>>>>> and art rather than war, then the killing and maiming are reduced and
>>>>> the
>>>>> general living standards are increased and people are more satisfied.
>>>>> However, people are ignorant, aggressive and acquisitive, so some
>>>>> conflict
>>>>> will always remain.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, some internal conflict, including wars, will always exist in a
>>>>> country. If we study U.S. or any European country history, we will find
>>>>> continued bloody and non-bloody conflicts. However, since 1945, the end
>>>>> of
>>>>> WW II, they have been relatively peaceful, both internally and
>>>>> externally.
>>>>> Will they remain so for the indefinite future? We and our children will
>>>>> see!
>>>>>
>>>>> After the communists took over power by destroying democracy and
>>>>> monarchy,
>>>>> Combodia, Ethiopia, and Afganistan became weak economically and
>>>>> politically.
>>>>> Nepal has to learn from these countries. Now, the situation in Combodia
>>>>> is
>>>>> getting better because the Cambodian people brought back multiparty
>>>>> democracy and constitutional monarchy by ousting the Maoist Khmer
>>>>> Rouge.
>>>>>
>>>>> Twenty-nine years after the communist took over the power in Ethiopia
>>>>> and
>>>>> the King, Jahir Shah, was sent out of Afghanistan, the people have
>>>>> suffered
>>>>> immensely.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I am saying about the Maoist guerrilla issue is that the question
>>>>> should not be which government system is better, mine or yours." Trying
>>>>> to
>>>>> answer this question will only lead to chaos and hatred, death and
>>>>> destruction, violence and murder. Why take that deadly path? A better
>>>>> and
>>>>> more practical way to approach this problem by first realizing that all
>>>>> people everywhere on earth need to focus on loving their country
>>>>> (wherever
>>>>> that country may be). Similarly they should have respect for their
>>>>> leaders
>>>>> and governments, and on having a greater pride in the land in which
>>>>> they
>>>>> live and call home.
>>>>>
>>>>> This world's economy revolves around and even depends upon stable
>>>>> governments everywhere. If each individual was to do his or her civic
>>>>> duty
>>>>> by honoring his or her home country, then economies would be built up
>>>>> in the
>>>>> process. For example, exercising their voting rights by voting in
>>>>> greater
>>>>> numbers during elections, increasing their loyalty to their companies
>>>>> by
>>>>> looking for more ways to being productive, and most importantly,
>>>>> honoring
>>>>> their father and mother, sisters and brothers, friends and neighbors
>>>>> are
>>>>> ways to make up a better nation.
>>>>>
>>>>> An effective way to deliver a just government system is by building one
>>>>> that
>>>>> possesses a mature checks and balance system, one that limits the
>>>>> effects of
>>>>> corruption and therefore helps to protect the civil rights of every
>>>>> citizen
>>>>> of the country. It's time for the people to stop looking in envy to
>>>>> other
>>>>> lands to satisfy their idea of a desirable place to be, to stop looking
>>>>> to
>>>>> other countries to find their ideal home. It's time for the people to
>>>>> look
>>>>> to their own homes, their own families, and their own communities to
>>>>> realize
>>>>> how valuable and precious their own land really is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Six million Ukrainians two million Cambodians, millions of North
>>>>> Koreans,
>>>>> millions in Zimbabwe and in Tito's Yugoslavia are starving to death
>>>>> right
>>>>> now. The total population of Cambodia, Turkey, Iran, or Argentina had
>>>>> to
>>>>> lose their life or suffer from starvation, malnutrition and undiagnosed
>>>>> or
>>>>> mistreated illnesses. Millions are uncounted for, incarcerated and have
>>>>> starved to death or died due to exposure. Communists believed that
>>>>> Marxism
>>>>> would bring about the greatest human welfare and power must be used to
>>>>> tear
>>>>> down the feudal or capitalist order but in practice, this system did
>>>>> not
>>>>> improve the lot of the average person, instead it usually made their
>>>>> living
>>>>> conditions worse.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is really sad to know that some 100 million people worldwide lost
>>>>> their
>>>>> lives to the ideological scourge of communism after 1917. They include
>>>>> the
>>>>> victims of Stalin's terror, victims of the Chinese Cultural Revolution;
>>>>> victims of the Cambodian genocide; victims of the Latin American and
>>>>> Cuban
>>>>> civil wars; East and Central Europeans dying in the uprisings of 1953,
>>>>> 1956
>>>>> and 1968 against their communist rulers. Communists also committed
>>>>> genocide.
>>>>> Genocide is the killing of people because of their ethnicity, race,
>>>>> religion, or language.
>>>>>
>>>>> A Combodian citizen stated to local media that "Khmer Rouge said they
>>>>> were
>>>>> creating a utopian nation where everyone would be equal but while the
>>>>> entire
>>>>> population was dying of starvation and disease, the Khmer Rouge
>>>>> soldiers and
>>>>> the communist party members were able to choose any woman or man they
>>>>> wanted
>>>>> to marry. In addition to limitless food, they were also crazy about
>>>>> gold,
>>>>> jewelry, perfume, imported watches, western medicine, cars,
>>>>> motorcycles,
>>>>> bicycles, silk, and other imported goods. I cannot forget how one woman
>>>>> was
>>>>> forced to cook her husband's liver, which was cut out while he was
>>>>> still
>>>>> alive. Women were raped before execution. In fact, every day, every
>>>>> minute
>>>>> the communists step on the rights of people like us, debase our values
>>>>> and
>>>>> restrict our freedoms. Communism and terrorism have a mutual aim."
>>>>>
>>>>> Most deadly of all communist countries has been Cambodia under the
>>>>> Khmer
>>>>> Rouge. They killed some 2 million Cambodians. The Soviet Union appears
>>>>> to be
>>>>> the greatest murderer of all, apparently killing near 61,000,000
>>>>> people.
>>>>> Stalin himself is responsible for almost 43,000,000 of these brutal
>>>>> killings. Most of the deaths, perhaps around 39,000,000 were due to
>>>>> lethal
>>>>> forced labor in the gulag and transit there to.
>>>>>
>>>>> As most communist governments underwent increasing liberalization and a
>>>>> loosening of centralized power in the 1960s through the 1980s, the pace
>>>>> of
>>>>> killing dropped off sharply.
>>>>>
>>>>> If people cannot honor and love their country then their country cannot
>>>>> love
>>>>> them. Therefore, the other half of the approach for answering this
>>>>> question
>>>>> is that governments and their leaders must honor and respect their
>>>>> people as
>>>>> well. They can do this by publicly declaring the democratic freedoms
>>>>> (such
>>>>> as the freedoms of speech, press, and religion) that their countrymen
>>>>> possess and by transparently and consistently honoring these freedoms
>>>>> all
>>>>> the time. One way that governments may do this is by establishing and
>>>>> developing stable and fair legal and courts systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, many Nepalese want peace at any price. We don't know how high the
>>>>> price
>>>>> was that we have to pay for the Maoist's peace?.
>>>>>
>>>>> *************
>>>>>
>>>>> ( Kamaal Sarup is editor of http://peacejournalism.com/ )
>>>>> _________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Partha Dasgupta
>>>> +919811047132
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Partha Dasgupta
>> +919811047132
>>
>
>


-- 
Partha Dasgupta
+919811047132