[Reader-list] Communism Or Terrorism? -Kamala Sarup

[Pawan Durani]

Yes Partha,

Thatz the reason I moved out my state which had a different constitution and
which was biased with the minority hindu community.

I have a state subject of J&K and I have a valid Indian passport. Do you
have the both ?

Pawan

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>wrote:

> So are you saying that any one unhappy with the way things are has no right
> to be in India?
> If so, that includes you as well, since you are upset with the way the Govt
> is handling the J&K issue.
>
> Are you applying for a passport as well?
>
> Rgds, Partha
> .................
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Partha,
>> If you dont love India, the passport application doesnt take much time
>> these days.
>>
>> Enjoy !
>>
>> pawan
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Pawan,
>>> For me to honour / love a person, concept or place, the person or place /
>>> concept has to be worthy of that honour.
>>>
>>> To continue in that thought, love the India that I believe in. The India
>>> which assimilated the Greeks, the Romans, the Mughals, the Portugese and the
>>> British and a host of other people & civilisations that came
>>> as visitors& conquerors and traders.
>>>
>>> What I see today as an exclusive rather than an inclusive India saddens
>>> me, and reduces my faith in the legislative, judiciary and administrative
>>> arms of this country as well as the closed mindsets that seem to be becoming
>>> the rule rather than an exception.
>>>
>>> And let us not forget that the process is driven by people at the end of
>>> the day. Blind faith with out questioning will lead to the same corruption
>>> that is slowly coming out in the open because of the RTI and the pervasive
>>> media.
>>>
>>> What do you believe?
>>>
>>> Rgds, Partha
>>> .................................................
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> What about the first line ? You like it ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And I love the rest of the lines
>>>>>
>>>>> "Therefore, the other half of the approach for answering this question
>>>>> is that governments and their leaders must honor and respect their people as
>>>>> well. They can do this by publicly declaring the democratic freedoms (such
>>>>> as the freedoms of speech, press, and religion) that their countrymen
>>>>> possess and by transparently and consistently honoring these freedoms all
>>>>> the time. One way that governments may do this is by establishing and
>>>>> developing stable and fair legal and courts systems."
>>>>>
>>>>> Rgds, Partha
>>>>> ..............................
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I love the first line ""If people cannot honor and love their
>>>>>> country then their country cannot love them."
>>>>>> God Bless
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pawan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Partha Dasgupta <
>>>>>> parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "If people cannot honor and love their country then their country
>>>>>>> cannot love
>>>>>>> them. Therefore, the other half of the approach for answering this
>>>>>>> question
>>>>>>> is that governments and their leaders must honor and respect their
>>>>>>> people as
>>>>>>> well. They can do this by publicly declaring the democratic freedoms
>>>>>>> (such
>>>>>>> as the freedoms of speech, press, and religion) that their countrymen
>>>>>>> possess and by transparently and consistently honoring these freedoms
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> the time. One way that governments may do this is by establishing and
>>>>>>> developing stable and fair legal and courts systems."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just quoting the concluding para from the article you posted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Think about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rgds, Partha
>>>>>>> ...............................
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Pawan Durani <
>>>>>>> pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00099.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Communism Or Terrorism?
>>>>>>>> By Kamala Sarup <http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00099.htm#a
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will define terrorism as "the murder of innocents", i.e.,
>>>>>>>> non-military,
>>>>>>>> non-police, and non-politicians. Thus defined, perhaps
>>>>>>>> communists/maoists in
>>>>>>>> some countries practice terrorism, e.g., Peru and Columbia, but not
>>>>>>>> all. I
>>>>>>>> don't associate the former Russian and East European brands of
>>>>>>>> communism
>>>>>>>> with terrorism. The separatists in Ireland and Spain are terrorists,
>>>>>>>> but not
>>>>>>>> communists. Muslim terrorists are not communists, generally. Radical
>>>>>>>> Muslim
>>>>>>>> terrorists are not communists, generally. I don't see the connection
>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>> the two terms. But It is widely known that why communism meant in
>>>>>>>> practice
>>>>>>>> bloody terrorism and forced labor?.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the other hand, we have much evidence that a communist economic
>>>>>>>> system is
>>>>>>>> associated with an authoritarian government system, which means that
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> government elite enhances its economic, judicial and political
>>>>>>>> freedoms and
>>>>>>>> suppresses those who are led by them. There is no theoretical reason
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> communism to be associated with authoritarianism, but in fact it is
>>>>>>>> and has
>>>>>>>> always been that way. Democratic-communistic societies have always
>>>>>>>> been very
>>>>>>>> small and very short-lived, so I have no hope that one will ever
>>>>>>>> exist for
>>>>>>>> very long in the future anywhere.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the leaders (meaning the government) of countries promote
>>>>>>>> education and
>>>>>>>> values that emphasize national and international identification
>>>>>>>> rather than
>>>>>>>> ethnic, religious, tribal or clan identification, then the ethnic,
>>>>>>>> religious, tribal and clan conflicts will diminish, in the long run.
>>>>>>>> If they
>>>>>>>> promote sufficient economic, judicial and political equality, then
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> people at the bottom of the ladder will not want to topple those at
>>>>>>>> the top.
>>>>>>>> The results of reducing conflict are that when people engage in
>>>>>>>> production
>>>>>>>> and art rather than war, then the killing and maiming are reduced
>>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>>> general living standards are increased and people are more
>>>>>>>> satisfied.
>>>>>>>> However, people are ignorant, aggressive and acquisitive, so some
>>>>>>>> conflict
>>>>>>>> will always remain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, some internal conflict, including wars, will always exist
>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>> country. If we study U.S. or any European country history, we will
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> continued bloody and non-bloody conflicts. However, since 1945, the
>>>>>>>> end of
>>>>>>>> WW II, they have been relatively peaceful, both internally and
>>>>>>>> externally.
>>>>>>>> Will they remain so for the indefinite future? We and our children
>>>>>>>> will see!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After the communists took over power by destroying democracy and
>>>>>>>> monarchy,
>>>>>>>> Combodia, Ethiopia, and Afganistan became weak economically and
>>>>>>>> politically.
>>>>>>>> Nepal has to learn from these countries. Now, the situation in
>>>>>>>> Combodia is
>>>>>>>> getting better because the Cambodian people brought back multiparty
>>>>>>>> democracy and constitutional monarchy by ousting the Maoist Khmer
>>>>>>>> Rouge.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Twenty-nine years after the communist took over the power in
>>>>>>>> Ethiopia and
>>>>>>>> the King, Jahir Shah, was sent out of Afghanistan, the people have
>>>>>>>> suffered
>>>>>>>> immensely.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I am saying about the Maoist guerrilla issue is that the
>>>>>>>> question
>>>>>>>> should not be which government system is better, mine or yours."
>>>>>>>> Trying to
>>>>>>>> answer this question will only lead to chaos and hatred, death and
>>>>>>>> destruction, violence and murder. Why take that deadly path? A
>>>>>>>> better and
>>>>>>>> more practical way to approach this problem by first realizing that
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> people everywhere on earth need to focus on loving their country
>>>>>>>> (wherever
>>>>>>>> that country may be). Similarly they should have respect for their
>>>>>>>> leaders
>>>>>>>> and governments, and on having a greater pride in the land in which
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> live and call home.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This world's economy revolves around and even depends upon stable
>>>>>>>> governments everywhere. If each individual was to do his or her
>>>>>>>> civic duty
>>>>>>>> by honoring his or her home country, then economies would be built
>>>>>>>> up in the
>>>>>>>> process. For example, exercising their voting rights by voting in
>>>>>>>> greater
>>>>>>>> numbers during elections, increasing their loyalty to their
>>>>>>>> companies by
>>>>>>>> looking for more ways to being productive, and most importantly,
>>>>>>>> honoring
>>>>>>>> their father and mother, sisters and brothers, friends and neighbors
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> ways to make up a better nation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An effective way to deliver a just government system is by building
>>>>>>>> one that
>>>>>>>> possesses a mature checks and balance system, one that limits the
>>>>>>>> effects of
>>>>>>>> corruption and therefore helps to protect the civil rights of every
>>>>>>>> citizen
>>>>>>>> of the country. It's time for the people to stop looking in envy to
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> lands to satisfy their idea of a desirable place to be, to stop
>>>>>>>> looking to
>>>>>>>> other countries to find their ideal home. It's time for the people
>>>>>>>> to look
>>>>>>>> to their own homes, their own families, and their own communities to
>>>>>>>> realize
>>>>>>>> how valuable and precious their own land really is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Six million Ukrainians two million Cambodians, millions of North
>>>>>>>> Koreans,
>>>>>>>> millions in Zimbabwe and in Tito's Yugoslavia are starving to death
>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>> now. The total population of Cambodia, Turkey, Iran, or Argentina
>>>>>>>> had to
>>>>>>>> lose their life or suffer from starvation, malnutrition and
>>>>>>>> undiagnosed or
>>>>>>>> mistreated illnesses. Millions are uncounted for, incarcerated and
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> starved to death or died due to exposure. Communists believed that
>>>>>>>> Marxism
>>>>>>>> would bring about the greatest human welfare and power must be used
>>>>>>>> to tear
>>>>>>>> down the feudal or capitalist order but in practice, this system did
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> improve the lot of the average person, instead it usually made their
>>>>>>>> living
>>>>>>>> conditions worse.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is really sad to know that some 100 million people worldwide lost
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> lives to the ideological scourge of communism after 1917. They
>>>>>>>> include the
>>>>>>>> victims of Stalin's terror, victims of the Chinese Cultural
>>>>>>>> Revolution;
>>>>>>>> victims of the Cambodian genocide; victims of the Latin American and
>>>>>>>> Cuban
>>>>>>>> civil wars; East and Central Europeans dying in the uprisings of
>>>>>>>> 1953, 1956
>>>>>>>> and 1968 against their communist rulers. Communists also committed
>>>>>>>> genocide.
>>>>>>>> Genocide is the killing of people because of their ethnicity, race,
>>>>>>>> religion, or language.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A Combodian citizen stated to local media that "Khmer Rouge said
>>>>>>>> they were
>>>>>>>> creating a utopian nation where everyone would be equal but while
>>>>>>>> the entire
>>>>>>>> population was dying of starvation and disease, the Khmer Rouge
>>>>>>>> soldiers and
>>>>>>>> the communist party members were able to choose any woman or man
>>>>>>>> they wanted
>>>>>>>> to marry. In addition to limitless food, they were also crazy about
>>>>>>>> gold,
>>>>>>>> jewelry, perfume, imported watches, western medicine, cars,
>>>>>>>> motorcycles,
>>>>>>>> bicycles, silk, and other imported goods. I cannot forget how one
>>>>>>>> woman was
>>>>>>>> forced to cook her husband's liver, which was cut out while he was
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>> alive. Women were raped before execution. In fact, every day, every
>>>>>>>> minute
>>>>>>>> the communists step on the rights of people like us, debase our
>>>>>>>> values and
>>>>>>>> restrict our freedoms. Communism and terrorism have a mutual aim."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most deadly of all communist countries has been Cambodia under the
>>>>>>>> Khmer
>>>>>>>> Rouge. They killed some 2 million Cambodians. The Soviet Union
>>>>>>>> appears to be
>>>>>>>> the greatest murderer of all, apparently killing near 61,000,000
>>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>>> Stalin himself is responsible for almost 43,000,000 of these brutal
>>>>>>>> killings. Most of the deaths, perhaps around 39,000,000 were due to
>>>>>>>> lethal
>>>>>>>> forced labor in the gulag and transit there to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As most communist governments underwent increasing liberalization
>>>>>>>> and a
>>>>>>>> loosening of centralized power in the 1960s through the 1980s, the
>>>>>>>> pace of
>>>>>>>> killing dropped off sharply.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If people cannot honor and love their country then their country
>>>>>>>> cannot love
>>>>>>>> them. Therefore, the other half of the approach for answering this
>>>>>>>> question
>>>>>>>> is that governments and their leaders must honor and respect their
>>>>>>>> people as
>>>>>>>> well. They can do this by publicly declaring the democratic freedoms
>>>>>>>> (such
>>>>>>>> as the freedoms of speech, press, and religion) that their
>>>>>>>> countrymen
>>>>>>>> possess and by transparently and consistently honoring these
>>>>>>>> freedoms all
>>>>>>>> the time. One way that governments may do this is by establishing
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> developing stable and fair legal and courts systems.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, many Nepalese want peace at any price. We don't know how high
>>>>>>>> the price
>>>>>>>> was that we have to pay for the Maoist's peace?.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *************
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ( Kamaal Sarup is editor of http://peacejournalism.com/ )
>>>>>>>> _________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Partha Dasgupta
>>>>>>> +919811047132
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Partha Dasgupta
>>>>> +919811047132
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Partha Dasgupta
>>> +919811047132
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Partha Dasgupta
> +919811047132
>