[Reader-list] Communism Or Terrorism? -Kamala Sarup

[Partha Dasgupta]

Dear Radhikarajen,

I agree completely.

Rgds, Partha
.............................

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 12:33 PM, <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:

> Dear Partha,
>      it is not the question of right to be in India or not to be In India,
> the duty is to make things better for all in India, having given ourselves a
> constitution to govern ourselves and when our leadership fails to deliver
> good governance to all without discrimination, it is for us, as we are the
> system, to correct the ills, that is right to correct, by participating in
> voting out the deadwood, by voting in with intellect the right leadership.
>
> Regards.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>
> Date: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:44 am
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Communism Or Terrorism? -Kamala Sarup
> To: Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> Cc: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
>
> > So are you saying that any one unhappy with the way things are has
> > no right
> > to be in India?
> > If so, that includes you as well, since you are upset with the way
> > the Govt
> > is handling the J&K issue.
> >
> > Are you applying for a passport as well?
> >
> > Rgds, Partha
> > .................
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Pawan Durani
> > <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
> > > Hi Partha,
> > > If you dont love India, the passport application doesnt take
> > much time
> > > these days.
> > >
> > > Enjoy !
> > >
> > > pawan
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Partha Dasgupta
> > <parthaekka at gmail.com>wrote:>
> > >> Hi Pawan,
> > >> For me to honour / love a person, concept or place, the person
> > or place /
> > >> concept has to be worthy of that honour.
> > >>
> > >> To continue in that thought, love the India that I believe in.
> > The India
> > >> which assimilated the Greeks, the Romans, the Mughals, the
> > Portugese and the
> > >> British and a host of other people & civilisations that came
> > >> as visitors& conquerors and traders.
> > >>
> > >> What I see today as an exclusive rather than an inclusive India
> > saddens>> me, and reduces my faith in the legislative, judiciary
> > and administrative
> > >> arms of this country as well as the closed mindsets that seem
> > to be becoming
> > >> the rule rather than an exception.
> > >>
> > >> And let us not forget that the process is driven by people at
> > the end of
> > >> the day. Blind faith with out questioning will lead to the same
> > corruption>> that is slowly coming out in the open because of the
> > RTI and the pervasive
> > >> media.
> > >>
> > >> What do you believe?
> > >>
> > >> Rgds, Partha
> > >> .................................................
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Pawan Durani
> > <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:>>
> > >>> What about the first line ? You like it ?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Partha Dasgupta
> > <parthaekka at gmail.com>wrote:>>>
> > >>>> And I love the rest of the lines
> > >>>>
> > >>>> "Therefore, the other half of the approach for answering this
> > question>>>> is that governments and their leaders must honor and
> > respect their people as
> > >>>> well. They can do this by publicly declaring the democratic
> > freedoms (such
> > >>>> as the freedoms of speech, press, and religion) that their
> > countrymen>>>> possess and by transparently and consistently
> > honoring these freedoms all
> > >>>> the time. One way that governments may do this is by
> > establishing and
> > >>>> developing stable and fair legal and courts systems."
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Rgds, Partha
> > >>>> ..............................
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Pawan Durani
> > <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:>>>>
> > >>>>> Yes, I love the first line ""If people cannot honor and love
> > their>>>>> country then their country cannot love them."
> > >>>>> God Bless
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Pawan
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Partha Dasgupta
> > <parthaekka at gmail.com>>>>> > wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> "If people cannot honor and love their country then their
> > country>>>>>> cannot love
> > >>>>>> them. Therefore, the other half of the approach for
> > answering this
> > >>>>>> question
> > >>>>>> is that governments and their leaders must honor and
> > respect their
> > >>>>>> people as
> > >>>>>> well. They can do this by publicly declaring the democratic
> > freedoms>>>>>> (such
> > >>>>>> as the freedoms of speech, press, and religion) that their
> > countrymen>>>>>> possess and by transparently and consistently
> > honoring these freedoms
> > >>>>>> all
> > >>>>>> the time. One way that governments may do this is by
> > establishing and
> > >>>>>> developing stable and fair legal and courts systems."
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Just quoting the concluding para from the article you posted.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Think about it.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Rgds, Partha
> > >>>>>> ...............................
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>  On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Pawan Durani <
> > >>>>>> pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00099.htm
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Communism Or Terrorism?
> > >>>>>>> By Kamala Sarup
> > <http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00099.htm#a>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I will define terrorism as "the murder of innocents", i.e.,
> > >>>>>>> non-military,
> > >>>>>>> non-police, and non-politicians. Thus defined, perhaps
> > >>>>>>> communists/maoists in
> > >>>>>>> some countries practice terrorism, e.g., Peru and
> > Columbia, but not
> > >>>>>>> all. I
> > >>>>>>> don't associate the former Russian and East European
> > brands of
> > >>>>>>> communism
> > >>>>>>> with terrorism. The separatists in Ireland and Spain are
> > terrorists,>>>>>>> but not
> > >>>>>>> communists. Muslim terrorists are not communists,
> > generally. Radical
> > >>>>>>> Muslim
> > >>>>>>> terrorists are not communists, generally. I don't see the
> > connection>>>>>>> between
> > >>>>>>> the two terms. But It is widely known that why communism
> > meant in
> > >>>>>>> practice
> > >>>>>>> bloody terrorism and forced labor?.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On the other hand, we have much evidence that a communist
> > economic>>>>>>> system is
> > >>>>>>> associated with an authoritarian government system, which
> > means that
> > >>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>> government elite enhances its economic, judicial and political
> > >>>>>>> freedoms and
> > >>>>>>> suppresses those who are led by them. There is no
> > theoretical reason
> > >>>>>>> for
> > >>>>>>> communism to be associated with authoritarianism, but in
> > fact it is
> > >>>>>>> and has
> > >>>>>>> always been that way. Democratic-communistic societies
> > have always
> > >>>>>>> been very
> > >>>>>>> small and very short-lived, so I have no hope that one
> > will ever
> > >>>>>>> exist for
> > >>>>>>> very long in the future anywhere.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> If the leaders (meaning the government) of countries promote
> > >>>>>>> education and
> > >>>>>>> values that emphasize national and international
> > identification>>>>>>> rather than
> > >>>>>>> ethnic, religious, tribal or clan identification, then the
> > ethnic,>>>>>>> religious, tribal and clan conflicts will diminish,
> > in the long run.
> > >>>>>>> If they
> > >>>>>>> promote sufficient economic, judicial and political
> > equality, then
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>> people at the bottom of the ladder will not want to topple
> > those at
> > >>>>>>> the top.
> > >>>>>>> The results of reducing conflict are that when people
> > engage in
> > >>>>>>> production
> > >>>>>>> and art rather than war, then the killing and maiming are
> > reduced and
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>> general living standards are increased and people are more
> > satisfied.>>>>>>> However, people are ignorant, aggressive and
> > acquisitive, so some
> > >>>>>>> conflict
> > >>>>>>> will always remain.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> However, some internal conflict, including wars, will
> > always exist in
> > >>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>> country. If we study U.S. or any European country history,
> > we will
> > >>>>>>> find
> > >>>>>>> continued bloody and non-bloody conflicts. However, since
> > 1945, the
> > >>>>>>> end of
> > >>>>>>> WW II, they have been relatively peaceful, both internally and
> > >>>>>>> externally.
> > >>>>>>> Will they remain so for the indefinite future? We and our
> > children>>>>>>> will see!
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> After the communists took over power by destroying
> > democracy and
> > >>>>>>> monarchy,
> > >>>>>>> Combodia, Ethiopia, and Afganistan became weak
> > economically and
> > >>>>>>> politically.
> > >>>>>>> Nepal has to learn from these countries. Now, the
> > situation in
> > >>>>>>> Combodia is
> > >>>>>>> getting better because the Cambodian people brought back
> > multiparty>>>>>>> democracy and constitutional monarchy by ousting
> > the Maoist Khmer
> > >>>>>>> Rouge.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Twenty-nine years after the communist took over the power
> > in Ethiopia
> > >>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>> the King, Jahir Shah, was sent out of Afghanistan, the
> > people have
> > >>>>>>> suffered
> > >>>>>>> immensely.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> What I am saying about the Maoist guerrilla issue is that the
> > >>>>>>> question
> > >>>>>>> should not be which government system is better, mine or
> > yours.">>>>>>> Trying to
> > >>>>>>> answer this question will only lead to chaos and hatred,
> > death and
> > >>>>>>> destruction, violence and murder. Why take that deadly
> > path? A better
> > >>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>> more practical way to approach this problem by first
> > realizing that
> > >>>>>>> all
> > >>>>>>> people everywhere on earth need to focus on loving their
> > country>>>>>>> (wherever
> > >>>>>>> that country may be). Similarly they should have respect
> > for their
> > >>>>>>> leaders
> > >>>>>>> and governments, and on having a greater pride in the land
> > in which
> > >>>>>>> they
> > >>>>>>> live and call home.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> This world's economy revolves around and even depends upon
> > stable>>>>>>> governments everywhere. If each individual was to do
> > his or her civic
> > >>>>>>> duty
> > >>>>>>> by honoring his or her home country, then economies would
> > be built up
> > >>>>>>> in the
> > >>>>>>> process. For example, exercising their voting rights by
> > voting in
> > >>>>>>> greater
> > >>>>>>> numbers during elections, increasing their loyalty to
> > their companies
> > >>>>>>> by
> > >>>>>>> looking for more ways to being productive, and most
> > importantly,>>>>>>> honoring
> > >>>>>>> their father and mother, sisters and brothers, friends and
> > neighbors>>>>>>> are
> > >>>>>>> ways to make up a better nation.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> An effective way to deliver a just government system is by
> > building>>>>>>> one that
> > >>>>>>> possesses a mature checks and balance system, one that
> > limits the
> > >>>>>>> effects of
> > >>>>>>> corruption and therefore helps to protect the civil rights
> > of every
> > >>>>>>> citizen
> > >>>>>>> of the country. It's time for the people to stop looking
> > in envy to
> > >>>>>>> other
> > >>>>>>> lands to satisfy their idea of a desirable place to be, to
> > stop>>>>>>> looking to
> > >>>>>>> other countries to find their ideal home. It's time for
> > the people to
> > >>>>>>> look
> > >>>>>>> to their own homes, their own families, and their own
> > communities to
> > >>>>>>> realize
> > >>>>>>> how valuable and precious their own land really is.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Six million Ukrainians two million Cambodians, millions of
> > North>>>>>>> Koreans,
> > >>>>>>> millions in Zimbabwe and in Tito's Yugoslavia are starving
> > to death
> > >>>>>>> right
> > >>>>>>> now. The total population of Cambodia, Turkey, Iran, or
> > Argentina had
> > >>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>> lose their life or suffer from starvation, malnutrition and
> > >>>>>>> undiagnosed or
> > >>>>>>> mistreated illnesses. Millions are uncounted for,
> > incarcerated and
> > >>>>>>> have
> > >>>>>>> starved to death or died due to exposure. Communists
> > believed that
> > >>>>>>> Marxism
> > >>>>>>> would bring about the greatest human welfare and power
> > must be used
> > >>>>>>> to tear
> > >>>>>>> down the feudal or capitalist order but in practice, this
> > system did
> > >>>>>>> not
> > >>>>>>> improve the lot of the average person, instead it usually
> > made their
> > >>>>>>> living
> > >>>>>>> conditions worse.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> It is really sad to know that some 100 million people
> > worldwide lost
> > >>>>>>> their
> > >>>>>>> lives to the ideological scourge of communism after 1917. They
> > >>>>>>> include the
> > >>>>>>> victims of Stalin's terror, victims of the Chinese Cultural
> > >>>>>>> Revolution;
> > >>>>>>> victims of the Cambodian genocide; victims of the Latin
> > American and
> > >>>>>>> Cuban
> > >>>>>>> civil wars; East and Central Europeans dying in the
> > uprisings of
> > >>>>>>> 1953, 1956
> > >>>>>>> and 1968 against their communist rulers. Communists also
> > committed>>>>>>> genocide.
> > >>>>>>> Genocide is the killing of people because of their
> > ethnicity, race,
> > >>>>>>> religion, or language.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> A Combodian citizen stated to local media that "Khmer
> > Rouge said they
> > >>>>>>> were
> > >>>>>>> creating a utopian nation where everyone would be equal
> > but while the
> > >>>>>>> entire
> > >>>>>>> population was dying of starvation and disease, the Khmer
> > Rouge>>>>>>> soldiers and
> > >>>>>>> the communist party members were able to choose any woman
> > or man they
> > >>>>>>> wanted
> > >>>>>>> to marry. In addition to limitless food, they were also
> > crazy about
> > >>>>>>> gold,
> > >>>>>>> jewelry, perfume, imported watches, western medicine, cars,
> > >>>>>>> motorcycles,
> > >>>>>>> bicycles, silk, and other imported goods. I cannot forget
> > how one
> > >>>>>>> woman was
> > >>>>>>> forced to cook her husband's liver, which was cut out
> > while he was
> > >>>>>>> still
> > >>>>>>> alive. Women were raped before execution. In fact, every
> > day, every
> > >>>>>>> minute
> > >>>>>>> the communists step on the rights of people like us,
> > debase our
> > >>>>>>> values and
> > >>>>>>> restrict our freedoms. Communism and terrorism have a
> > mutual aim."
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Most deadly of all communist countries has been Cambodia
> > under the
> > >>>>>>> Khmer
> > >>>>>>> Rouge. They killed some 2 million Cambodians. The Soviet Union
> > >>>>>>> appears to be
> > >>>>>>> the greatest murderer of all, apparently killing near
> > 61,000,000>>>>>>> people.
> > >>>>>>> Stalin himself is responsible for almost 43,000,000 of
> > these brutal
> > >>>>>>> killings. Most of the deaths, perhaps around 39,000,000
> > were due to
> > >>>>>>> lethal
> > >>>>>>> forced labor in the gulag and transit there to.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> As most communist governments underwent increasing
> > liberalization and
> > >>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>> loosening of centralized power in the 1960s through the
> > 1980s, the
> > >>>>>>> pace of
> > >>>>>>> killing dropped off sharply.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> If people cannot honor and love their country then their
> > country>>>>>>> cannot love
> > >>>>>>> them. Therefore, the other half of the approach for
> > answering this
> > >>>>>>> question
> > >>>>>>> is that governments and their leaders must honor and
> > respect their
> > >>>>>>> people as
> > >>>>>>> well. They can do this by publicly declaring the
> > democratic freedoms
> > >>>>>>> (such
> > >>>>>>> as the freedoms of speech, press, and religion) that their
> > countrymen>>>>>>> possess and by transparently and consistently
> > honoring these freedoms
> > >>>>>>> all
> > >>>>>>> the time. One way that governments may do this is by
> > establishing and
> > >>>>>>> developing stable and fair legal and courts systems.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Now, many Nepalese want peace at any price. We don't know
> > how high
> > >>>>>>> the price
> > >>>>>>> was that we have to pay for the Maoist's peace?.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> *************
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ( Kamaal Sarup is editor of http://peacejournalism.com/ )
> > >>>>>>> _________________________________________
> > >>>>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
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> > >>>>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>> Partha Dasgupta
> > >>>>>> +919811047132
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Partha Dasgupta
> > >>>> +919811047132
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Partha Dasgupta
> > >> +919811047132
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Partha Dasgupta
> > +919811047132
> > _________________________________________
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>



-- 
Partha Dasgupta
+919811047132