[Reader-list] HARAM

Mon Sep 29 21:46:48 IST 2008

Dear Kshmendra,
thanks for this reflection,

dear all,

it is unfortunate that some of the members on the List read my
reflections as acts of profanation of the sacred.

 I ask myself, am i really stupid that i create enemies for nothing.
I ask myself, i am  not MF Hussain who can afford to live outside his
country of birth,  ( against his will ) but  i  cant, so if i am
writing anything, or reflecting anything on this or that, is  perhaps,
out of sheer compulsion to convey to talk, to learn to listen the
other.  Why it should be so difficult amongst learned people, i
wonder. It is so simple and easy out there. People make so many jokes
about deities and live like friends. But why it is cooler the higher
we go? I ask myself. No answer.#

There is somuch in the popular culture that we ( artists ) get
inspired to do this so called profane of the sacred. Take any calander
 of any Devi or Devta  (  Hindu deities ) and read its graphic and see
how Gods are clean shaved, their arms and legs are without a single
hair. How is it so ? then  suddenly there is an image of a bearded
Lord shiva,  They (commercial artists ) can do it their own sweet
will,  but some other artists cannot do it. It is strange, Duchamp
added moustaches to Monalisa, and it was a work of art. There are
hundreds of examples. That is because Hinduism can not  be seperated
from any discourse on sexuality.  take Kama Surtra.  Here the divine
itself is part of worldly pleasure. We have Lord Krishna stealing
garments of Gopis, and there are illustrations of it. It is wonderful,
but why  that is acceptable and why not some other interpretation of
the same idea.  May be some of the friends can throw some light on it.

What is surprising, that a strange comparison to Muslim culture crops
up suddenly.  I have written about it already. that there is
sufficient muslim iconography available in the world and they
celebrate it in their own way. And dont we have Salman Rushdie who
fictionalized some parts of it,  and subsequently got a huge
intellectual support from the all over the world after Fatwa.

Here i want to hear from friends like Pawan ji, Aditya Ji and Radihak
ji and Rashneek Ji  and chanchal ji, ( is there anybody left ) what is
 your  support on Salman Rushdies Stanic Verses.

Please write briefly, and let me know what is your stand. I will
accordingly know with whom i am talking.

Basically, we are still living in the times which is full of people
who killed Mansoor Halaj, and beheaded Sarmad Shaheed. It is sad, that
living in a modern  technological world also  meant a staus quo on so
many mindsets of fanatics.

I was so happy to see Khuda Kay Liya ( a pakistani film,  work of art ),

lastly, i convey my regrets if sentiments of some of the dear members
are hurt because of this or that.

right now i have nothing but Love for all

inder salim

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmeDear  kshmendra

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Radhikarajen
>
> In your one sentence you have absolutely crossed the limits of decency by any standards. There can be no justification for doing so. No excuse good enough.
>
> By doing so you have also made meaningless any points you might have been trying to make.
>
> No Divinity is greater than any person. The person himself/herself is Divinity. Any person. You should realise  that if you have an understanding of Dharma (called Hinduism).
>
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
> --- On Mon, 9/29/08, radhikarajen at vsnl.net <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:
>
> From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net <radhikarajen at vsnl.net>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HARAM
> To: "Aarti Sethi" <aarti.sethi at gmail.com>
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 4:07 PM
>
> Aarti,
>
>  if you enjoy the vague comments of Inderji, like the rioters getting upset
> because of something written about "pandavas" it is upto you. Please
> read the exchange of our thoughts carefully before jumping to protect Inderji
> with lots of love.Orissa happened because a 80 year old revered person along
> with aged persons was shot dead, not because of vague comments. Further Inderji
> in his glib posts with occassional ghalib quotes gets away with sedition, but
> being apologists to secularism, we always tolerate. When he says --"what is
> sacred to you, need not be sacred for him," the secular credentials stand
> totally exposed.
>
>  For me, what is sacred for him, may not be sacred, but i will not ridicule
> that feel of sacredness. That is tolerent human being in me. But he not only
> prefers to ridicule and Aarti for her love is prepared to chastise others to be
> tolerent of his posts which at times are games of dividing the citizens on
> yardstick of caste and faith, support to separatists tinged with ghalib's
> quoates.?
>
>  So, just to get him a feel of what it means to hurt others of the social ills
> the two incidents are given, not that in other communities the events of such
> magbitude do not happen, but priests in our society have no right of fathwas.
>
>   If you like the circumsized cock it is your choice, but it does not give
> right to you to keep mum when that person ridicules what you consider as good
> and sacred. Tolerence does not mean that Inder can ridicule everything that is
> sacred for hindu to please his bosses in power. When he talks of caste
> discrimination, he seems to overlook the ills in other faiths and communities
> and faiths, with humans in every community, the faults are there in all the
> faiths. Let us try to figure out at reforms from our homes first, as charity
> begins at home, but it does not give any moral high for a person like Inder
> salim to talk up above from clouds.! It is for this reason, that i gave the
> incidents for him to reflect on the role of fathwas, let him respond, if he
> wants a decent debate, but that does not mean we should take his intolerence in
> our strides.?
>
> Regards.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com>
> Date: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:05 pm
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] HARAM
> To: radhikarajen at vsnl.net
> Cc: inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com>, reader-list at sarai.net
>
>> radhika again you talk in unsubstantiated and vague generalities
>> which are
>> neither here nor there and only betray your prejudice. Do you wish
>> me to
>> quote incidents of the patriarchy inherent in Hindu society? I
>> assure you I
>> can at great length. Really this is getting us nowhere.
>>
>> regs
>> A
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 1:10 PM, <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:
>>
>> > With more love,
>> >      Inderji,
>> >    a visual which showed the father in law defending having sex
>> with his
>> > daughter in law, fit to be his daughter did not make me smile,
>> felt sad,
>> > even saddened  by the fathwa that followed the incident
>> >      .A girl of hardly thirteen years married off to a
> "shaikh"
>> of 67 years
>> > of age, in Hyderabad, weeping at the airport before the flight
>> took off,made
>> > me sad, not laugh as the nikah was legal, meher was good.
>> >
>> > Regards.
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
>> > Date: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:38 pm
>> > Subject: [Reader-list] HARAM
>> > To: reader-list at sarai.net
>> >
>> > > the one word comment  HARAM ( illegitimate ) on the following
>> you tube
>> > > Nizamuddin no. at Ghalib's Mazar  ( a fragment of complete
>> song )
>> > > made me smile,  unlike those who start rioting ( in Orirsa )
> after
>> > > reading something about Pandav Putras and some other deities
>> similar> > to them in origin.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgNaFxUPaDg
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > just click the above
>> > > love
>> > > is
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > >
>> > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com
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>>
>
>
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