[Reader-list] Jamia Millia University should be prosecuted
Nazneen Anand Shamsi
nazoshmasi at googlemail.com
Sun Sep 28 23:56:50 IST 2008
On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Nazneen Anand Shamsi <
nazoshmasi at googlemail.com> wrote:
Dear Inder,
Thank you for your mail. It was a pleasure to read all those quotes
inter meshed with your thoughts. The foreground/background dialectic again!
I often think about death in relation to time and memory. As we grow older
we are burdened with the memory of times gone by. Yet when we are living a
moment we are so unaware of the weight we are producing for ourselves. We do
things because we want to. Yet that want seems so hollow after a while.
Bereft of any meaning. Devoid of any essence. We want to move on. Change
with times. Time of course, is experiential. I think about the intensity of
the present which consumes all other moments. The one which has just gone by
and the one which is yet to come.
Why is it that there is no memory of immediate present? We remember time
only through events. In this respect that quote from Socrates seems so apt,
' my face is merging with the mask'. He did not die a natural death. He
choose his time and place. He choose his event. He knew. He was aware.
Suicide for me, is perhaps much more than theologically inspired concept of
'weakness'. It is a moment of truth. In this world of appearances, where we
are always told to be someone, a toast of hemlock seems like a final
acknowledgment of one's being. That I will not negotiate. I will not be. I
remember, when I was a child, I used to freeze when someone would ask,
'badhe hoke kya banoge' (What will you be when you grow up?). I didn't know
it then. I don't know it now. Somewhere along the way I have stopped
searching.
We live in multiple times. Dream, fantasy, anxiety, desire, angst, anger
are all states of experiencing time while being at someplace else. Death in
a sense is perhaps the most pure experience of time. I think it is in the
moment of death perhaps we solve the problematic of time. But what about
other states of death. Like Jamia encounter. or the Delhi blasts. The
inspector didn't know. The students didn't know. The victims didn't know.
Death signified horror. The time code was interrupted. Or may be, on the
last day of their lives they didn't know. They died with their masks on. Or
perhaps the mask was never there. We will never know. 'Sar par kafan bandh
ke chalna' is only a contingent practice. We are trapped in this profound
fiction of normality. Floating in a river of fire. Sometimes we consume. At
others we are consumed. We want to believe that when we grow old we die.
Like four stages of life. We demand temporal stability. We dream about life
as if it will be fair to us. We forget that a still born baby also dies a
natural death. In an earlier post Jeebesh mentioned something about
'thanatocracy' with respect to Kashmir and the Indian state. Death signifies
power in this regard. The naked vulnerability. Death is an essential
condition for any state. Sovereign or otherwise. Yes death is political in
its nakedness. You observed about signifier and signified with respect to
that ramp walk of model terrorists. May be terrorism has become a new
pornography of our times. We have finally arrived at a live TV formula to
keep people/audiences/citizens/consumers/voters/individuals glued so that
they can see some soap and soft drink ads. A report in outlook (
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20081006&fname=BDelhi+Encounter+(F)&sid=1)
describes how a Delhi police special cell inspector was dressed as a
salesman when he knocked on the doors of student/'terrorist'. He had don a
mask perhaps to fabricate death. Death becomes a lure, a performance, to be
enacted convincingly in front of live TV.
And Kabir says, 'Aayein hain soo jaayenge rajah rnk faquir'.
Best
Nazo
On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 2:17 PM, inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
wrote:
through Montaigne's own Stoicism, that
"to philosophize is to learn to die" ,
For Deluze/Blanchot ' any death is double'
1. but it is not 'I' that dies and it is not 'my death' either
2. we never cease and we never finish to die. In this sense, living
is inseparable from the partial deaths that it goes through, up
until
the disintegration, in "the other" death, of its individualized
living
shape. This another Death is ahead of us.
Dear Nazo, thanks for a great and profound response. Death is
certainly where foregrounds meet backgrounds. They indeed collapse.
As Socretes, famously, said, while drinking Hemlock, ' my face is
merging with the mask ' . It is true that this 'event' can be
experienced only when one dies, but certainly that experience too
becomes part of that 'event'. All we have is THIS. This what the
learned heads say is OUTSIDE.
They also say, I quote, The Outside is a pre-individual intensive
universe of forces and unshaped matters that is "more distant than
any external world." On the other end, life as an intensity is
inseparable from shapes of life that appear in the folds or as the
folds of the line of the Outside'.
At this point, "death is rather the ultimate shape of
the problematic, the source of all problems and questions, the mark
of their
permanency above every answer, the "Where?" and "When?" that
designate
this (non)-being whereby every affirmation finds its energy" Death
as an event in "history" is only a point where two kinds of death
meet. But
it also reveals that death or "to die," as a pure Event, as an
incorporeal, is
essential to the creation and proliferation of life and thought. As
Deleuze and
Guattari stated in What Is Philosophy?:
In fact, artistic creation is often presented by Deleuze as a
counter-effectuation of a line of death.
Through this, all what I want to see is that the coded signs in our
life and thought are basically full of that emptiness of time. So,
collapsible. Whatever that be, and that actually gives us some
feeling
of change, else as the Greeks say, there is nothing new under the
sun.
Right now, the only thing which prompts me to write is, for myself
and
for those readers on the list who quickly lapse into malice and
personal abuse, if we can intensify the questioning keeping in view,
I
quote again, " death is rather ultimate shape of problematic, the
source of all problems and questions".
Recently, one of the active participants mr. Kshmendra wanted to
know
the territory of would be nation- Kashmir.
My answer was that how we are in a position to draw territories when
we have lost the earth collectively, sadly.
Now here again, if we don't intensify the discourse on the problems
of
environmental death/dying of earth, we actually remain fighting on
issues that are either irrelevant or shallow in nature.
For example, Sadanand Menon's piece on the Arab Scarves provided to
the three arrested from Jamia, made me to think again that what is
the Mask. So in that sense, the identity of a community or a person
represented by a sign or code is more lively than the person
underneath. amazing, how signs function between signifers and
signifieds.
The whole Muslim community was paraded naked by the red and white
Arab
scarves, intentionally.
It is indeed strange to see how subjectivities can be manipulated in
a
particular situation, by those who don't think that ' death' is
overpowering a subject which can turn the tables at any given point
of
time. That indeed is political, here.
But in poetic sense also, if we consider a saint like Kabir who
always
kept us reminding the futility of being too attached to materiality
of
this illusory world.
Love
is
p.s needless to say, that I am not a student of philosophy, even.
Thanks Tapas, i too read different reflections with this intention
that it liberates, educates....
On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 1:08 AM, Tapas Ray <tapasrayx at gmail.com>
wrote:
> It's exchanges like this that make it worthwhile to stay on here.
>
>
>
> 2008/9/27 Nazneen Anand Shamsi <nazoshmasi at googlemail.com>:
>> Dear Inder,
>>
>> Certain words, phrases crop up in my mind when I read your
response- reverse
>> engineering, hacking, hermeneutics, reading, translating. These
words are
>> fairly well circulated in our social life. All of these words
convey, in a
>> sense, perhaps, exercises in code making and code breaking.
Meaning making
>> as a hobby, I feel, is slowly fading away. I agree with you when
you say
>> that 'people want instant results'. Perhaps this is just one more
sign of
>> our times. We are not interested in processes anymore. We are not
interested
>> in exposing ourselves to a knowledge, which tells us in all its
rawness, how
>> a thing was arrived at. In this rush to consume, be it a national
identity
>> or a candy bar we have grown to appreciate just the product. In
its final
>> form. Packaged. Sealed. Sterilized. And yes with a price and that
crucial
>> date of manufacture and expiry date intact.
>>
>> Change- they say, is the essence of our common human existence.
But is it
>> not that the more people change the more they remain the same. I
still feel
>> sometimes, that even in this day and age we are essentially
hunter gathers.
>> Always out of our caves in search of something. Jobs. Spouses.
Causes.
>> Lifestyles. Thoughts. Ideas. And once we find something that
gives us a
>> little meaning. We stop. We demarcate. We build small fences
around and like
>> that dog on the street who pisses on four poles and thinks that
it is his
>> territory and we bark and we bite, sometimes we fight too against
all those
>> who contest and dares to question us. Present takes over. Truth,
or that
>> thing called truth! Takes over. When the only truth of our frail
existence
>> is of course death. That one day we will all be gone. And with us
all our
>> memories, desires, aspirations, bitterness, hunger, food, sex,
>> companionship, conversations, life plans, rights/wrongs,
smartness, style,
>> cleverness will go. Natural death, for me, is a calming thought.
The
>> calumniation of a journey. A full stop. The greatest leveler.
And the irony
>> is that in the moment of death we will take away with us its
memory and its
>> experience. The code will cease to exist. The translation will
stop. The
>> foreground will merge with the background.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Nazo
>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 4:31 AM, inder salim <
indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> well said, "we want to deliberately create that distance to
make
>>> meaning? " Dear Nazo
>>>
>>> certailly,the image in front of our eyes is illusion, beret of
that
>>> madness which created it in the first palce.. i am not only
talking
>>> about a photograph, but about the various derived meanings which
>>> resemble an image
>>>
>>> .what we get ? we are certainly struggling to make some sense
of what
>>> we see, feel, her and even touch.
>>>
>>> anything becomes a backgroound, in a situation. of image or
otherwise.
>>> what violence is happening in the background is struggling for a
>>> language, which is perhaps not there. It might be discovering
one
>>> only when someting replaces its own background. There is deep
flux
>>> going on between this background-foreground of reality. I am
>>> personally wondering if we could ever get a right picture of '
what it
>>> is' . since background instantly lapses into silence, without
those
>>> essential codes which occupy the meaning.
>>>
>>> we certainly create meaning of a history only when we distance
>>> ourselves from it. otherwise there is no way we can talk ' the
>>> hysteria of history' .... this is the paradox, which often keep
us
>>> busy, chasing the other, so distortions, wittingly or
unwittingly.
>>> the saner thing appears, here, is that we need to emancipate
ourselves
>>> from time to time, keep ourselves open to doubt. this is
perhaps, too
>>> much to demand, since people want instant results, both in
their
>>> private and public life. But we know how changes occur,
sometimes
>>> nothing seems to change. particularly when the word '
revolution' is
>>> passe.
>>>
>>> you have rightly said that social reality is coded, but how much
>>> quantum of the coded reality gets its ' time ' to occupy the
sapce for
>>> a meaning. ( i am perhaps vague ) . the impermenance of
whites,
>>> blacks and blues in the sky makes it all time grey.
>>> but then perhaps, we need a contrast to realise our own beings,
our
>>> identities, genders so that background ( greys ) are not talked
about,
>>> literally a grey is colour a coded shade too. an illusion
again. but
>>> something is more rapid than eye which thinks it catches full.
>>>
>>>
>>> in another post, i was thinking about a 10000 year old histroy
to
>>> begin with, where we can certainly make this grey more visible.
but
>>> since we have to talk and talk , so we need codes which are
available
>>> to us from our recent history only. so 1947 is coded in that
sense,
>>> but since we have moved far ahead of 1947 it strangely becomes a
>>> background reality. the pain of it atleast. even the recent
delhi bomb
>>> blasts become coded realities, but much happens always than we
can
>>> talk about
>>>
>>> love
>>> is
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:55 AM, Nazneen Anand Shamsi
>>> <nazoshmasi at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> > Dear Inder,
>>> >
>>> > Thank you for a wonderful post. It made me think. Wasn't codes
always a
>>> part
>>> > of our reality? I don't see any harm in that. What makes me
wonder is
>>> this
>>> > whole background/foreground dichotomy. I think to see a
picture as an
>>> image
>>> > composed of backgrounds and foregrounds is to engage in an
exercise in
>>> self
>>> > delusion.
>>> >
>>> > Are there any backgrounds or foregrounds in a two dimensional
frame. Or
>>> is
>>> > it that we want to deliberately create that distance to make
meaning?
>>> Would
>>> > it be wrong to say that a picture is only composed of
backgrounds etched
>>> in
>>> > time and as we move along we call, for the sake of
convenience, some of
>>> > those backgrounds foregrounds? Or that every foreground was a
background
>>> > first, till we re-frame our perspective? Is 1947 really the
background or
>>> is
>>> > it a foreground, we are revisiting as in a state of deja vu?
>>> >
>>> > The social world will always unfold in front our eyes and will
always
>>> seem
>>> > like a code, for we will never know what it was. We will
always try to
>>> > interpret it. Grasp it. Clinch it. Manipulate it. There are no
blacks or
>>> > whites, only shades of gray. Constantly changing its color
like those
>>> dense
>>> > over cast clouds on a windy day. Which shade of gray that
cloud will take
>>> > depends only on the wind.
>>> >
>>> > I do not know whether the Jamia incident can become a national
issue, for
>>> I
>>> > truly believe that public memory is short. Between September
and may,
>>> > between winter and summer, a lot may happen. Lets hope and
keep hoping
>>> that
>>> > it happens for the best.
>>> >
>>> > Warm regards
>>> >
>>> > Nazo
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:29 PM, inder salim <
indersalim at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Nazo
>>> >>
>>> >> you have a point, it is now very intersting. thanks for very
good
>>> >> reflections...
>>> >>
>>> >> yes, where ever there is free health care , people tend to
consume
>>> >> more medicine. .... yet another paradox.
>>> >>
>>> >> it was not just another case of an arrest where student was
arrested
>>> >> say on charges of rape etc. but the situation is quite
political here.
>>> >> i still see 1947 kind of reality. I still see kings and
princes
>>> >> around, in that sense, i feel there were always prime
ministers and
>>> >> elections.
>>> >>
>>> >> i quote ronald barthi , The stadium is always coded, the
punctum is
>>> >> not. He is talking about photographs, where the backgroud is
almost
>>> >> insignficant, thus giving a mysterious presence to the
figures in the
>>> >> foreground. I am just learning myself, here, to understand if
we can
>>> >> talk about the background reality of the muslims. Li ving
on yumana
>>> >> pushta, i once asked a man what is your name, he politely
replied,
>>> >> mein to musalmaan hoon ( i am just a muslim ) . so the issue
of
>>> >> minority comes to the fore, the whole cane or worms begin to
swarm the
>>> >> surface which was meant for words, words which hold the
meaning....
>>> >>
>>> >> The media, the red and white scarf around the faces of the
arrested
>>> >> students, the muslim terrorism, the necessary and
un)necessary roles
>>> >> played by police, the shaheed police officer, and the
opposite side of
>>> >> the muslims fundamentalsim: RSS Parivar, Everything is coded,
and we
>>> >> readiilyy see green as muslim and orange as Hindu and so
on...
>>> >>
>>> >> But here, the punctum is the large background of human mass,
who are
>>> >> suspicious... ........ the term ' jamia, which was not a
major
>>> >> foreground part of the image till recently is begining to
become
>>> >> coded, Thus its VC who happens to be a muslim. Everhing is
becoming
>>> >> like a stadium.
>>> >>
>>> >> the palyers are playing the game. But there is unpridicatable
nautre
>>> >> of game,, a strange dynamics in the audience, hapening all
the time,
>>> >> outside the stadium too, beyond the hills too, beyond
terrotiers too.
>>> >> the air and sun mixed with history is such that the
background happens
>>> >> withoiut a representation, and thus a mysterioius, and
unpridictable.
>>> >>
>>> >> The entry of HRD in all of this has again added a code to the
existing
>>> >> codes. That was inevitable, because the stadium was bigger
than it
>>> >> looked before.
>>> >> NOt surprising , the jamia issue can become a national issue
for anti
>>> >> BJP campaing, who tried their best to catapult Amanath Land
issue into
>>> >> national election issue......, and thus all kinds of
distortions. One
>>> >> of the distortion is : creating legal cell, but how to see
that not
>>> >> happening, given the nature of coded presence, which is too
>>> >> overwhelming. we are caught in the laybrinth of paradoxes, i
quote
>>> >> Focualt
>>> >>
>>> >> The background is what sometimes, looks more deeper than the
the
>>> obvious.
>>> >>
>>> >> love
>>> >> is
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Nazneen Anand Shamsi
>>> >> <nazoshmasi at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> >> > Dear Radhikarajen, Dear Iram, Dear all
>>> >> >
>>> >> > This is exactly what I was fearing. One incident happens in
a
>>> localized
>>> >> > setting, and people want to set up an institution to 'deal'
with it.
>>> >> > Creating one more category to trap a section of the society
which is
>>> >> > already
>>> >> > struggling with other categories. This is far more
alienating. I would
>>> >> > not
>>> >> > be surprised, that given the timing of this benign act,
some people on
>>> >> > this
>>> >> > list would be extremely happy, for their wishes were
answered. But the
>>> >> > larger fallout, in this case would be, that other
communities would
>>> >> > begin to
>>> >> > ask for such institutions as well. Which in turn would do
more harm
>>> than
>>> >> > good to vulnerable sections of society. I would expect the
members of
>>> >> > the
>>> >> > state to act with more impunity, in cases to come, for now
they can
>>> >> > always
>>> >> > say to members of minority community, yes we are doing this
but you
>>> may
>>> >> > go
>>> >> > to this institution and register your protest. This is
exactly what
>>> >> > happened
>>> >> > in East Germany, which allowed Statsi to harass people at
will as they
>>> >> > have
>>> >> > compensatory institutions at place.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I find this act by HRD Minister deeply anguishing. This is
not called
>>> >> > for at
>>> >> > all. I register my protest in the setting up of this legal
cell in the
>>> >> > strongest possible manner.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Best
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Nazo
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 12:30 PM, <radhikarajen at vsnl.net>
wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> STOP PRESS
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> expect the vily old fox to encash the votes, Shri, Arjun
Singh, HRD
>>> >> >> minister visited the VC of Jamia Milia University to
extend all help
>>> to
>>> >> >> all
>>> >> >> terror accused, now Bhajrang dal also can expect all help
for the
>>> >> >> activities
>>> >> >> from HRD minister. A special legal cell has been
constituted to
>>> >> >> encourage
>>> >> >> obstruction of judicial proceedings with reputed
"criminal" lawyers
>>> >> >> and the
>>> >> >> panel will be headed by R K Anand, legal illuninary who
can obstruct
>>> >> >> all
>>> >> >> proceedings for the right fee, able assisted by minister
of Law, H R
>>> >> >> Bharadwaj, who was instrumental in obstruction of
impeachment of a
>>> >> >> judge in
>>> >> >> Parliament, Mr. Jce. Ramaswamy. Mr. Kapil Sibal will be
this time
>>> >> >> arguing
>>> >> >> both i and out of parliament for the legal aid cell. ( In
impeachment
>>> >> >> proceedings being non member of parliament, Mr. sibal had
argued at
>>> the
>>> >> >> entrance of the hall of parliament.)
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> All the universities will be provided budgetary
allocations on caste,
>>> >> >> faith
>>> >> >> based estimates with funds to extend legal aid., the
minister
>>> assured,
>>> >> >> and
>>> >> >> particular care will be taken of the faith based
terrorists and all
>>> >> >> help
>>> >> >> will be extended to improve law and order and the accused
can have
>>> all
>>> >> >> the
>>> >> >> help from various minstries also like railway passes for
going to the
>>> >> >> courts, subsidised fertisiser, ammonium nitrate for the
needy.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> >> From: iram ghufran <iram_ghufran at yahoo.co.in>
>>> >> >> Date: Friday, September 26, 2008 2:48 pm
>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Jamia Millia University should
be
>>> prosecuted
>>> >> >> To: reader-list at sarai.net
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> > Apologies for x posting but this is a response by
Sudhanva
>>> >> >> > Deshpande to a similar email I sent on the MCRC alumni
group...
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----
>>> >> >> > From: Sudhanva Deshpande <sudu26 at yahoo.co.uk>
>>> >> >> > To: mcrc_jamia_alumni at yahoogroups.com
>>> >> >> > Sent: Friday, 26 September, 2008 1:04:38 PM
>>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [mcrc_jamia_alumni] Jamia Millia University
should be
>>> >> >> > prosecuted
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > dear iram (and others),
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > just one more point, which i forgot to mention earlier.
prof
>>> >> >> > hasan's stand needs to be contrasted to the stand taken
a couple
>>> >> >> > of years ago by the VC of baroda university, when
bajrang dal
>>> >> >> > goons targetted the arts dept. one student,
chandramohan, and the
>>> >> >> > dean, shivji panikkar, were the victims of the hindu
right, and
>>> >> >> > the VC, far from defending the student or dean, simply
went along
>>> >> >> > with this victimisation. that's what i mean by the line
of least
>>> >> >> > offence. the dangers of such a line are evident: it can
destroy
>>> >> >> > careers, departments, or even threaten lives.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > the challenge, then, is to create a larger sense of
'community'
>>> >> >> > and 'engagement' where students, faculty and staff of a
university
>>> >> >> > are encouraged to participate in larger alliances that
encompass
>>> >> >> > not only their sectional interests (as students/faculty/
staff)
>>> >> >> > but go beyond the university, to the neighbourhood, the
city, and
>>> >> >> > even beyond.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > cheers,
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > sudhanva
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > * * * * *
>>> >> >> > Sudhanva Deshpande
>>> >> >> > LeftWord, 12 Rajendra Prasad Road, New Delhi 110001
>>> >> >> > Phones: 2335 9456, 2335 6966 (office), 2526 4822
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----
>>> >> >> > From: Sudhanva Deshpande <sudu26 at yahoo. co.uk>
>>> >> >> > To: mcrc_jamia_alumni@ yahoogroups. com
>>> >> >> > Sent: Friday, 26 September, 2008 11:33:59
>>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [mcrc_jamia_ alumni] Jamia Millia
University should
>>> >> >> > be prosecuted
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > dear iram,
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > thanks for your post. you have raised very important
points. i'd
>>> >> >> > like to respond to some of them.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > 1. the VC is well within his rights to promise legal
aid. he has
>>> >> >> > clarified that he will not use UGC funds, but the monies
raised
>>> >> >> > internally by the univ, through fees etc. this is
neither
>>> >> >> > unprecedented nor irregular. there are scores of such
instances
>>> >> >> > across the world. the hindu today has a good editorial
on this,
>>> >> >> > especially on the legal aspects.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > 2. you are right in saying that a student from manipur
has as much
>>> >> >> > claim to JMI as a student from zakir nagar. at any point
that a
>>> >> >> > manipuri student faces prosecution, one should use the
current
>>> >> >> > instance to mount pressure on the university to provide
similar
>>> >> >> > legal aid to the concerned student. in other words, one
has to
>>> >> >> > work towards expanding the university's sense of
responsibility
>>> >> >> > towards its students, rather than constricting it.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > 3. you are also right in asking the obvious question:
what if the
>>> >> >> > student/s are found guilty? the answer is obvious too:
they must
>>> >> >> > be punished according to the law of the land. but what
is the law
>>> >> >> > of the land, and how is that to be used to determine
guilt as well
>>> >> >> > as the quantum of punishment? these are not black and
white, given
>>> >> >> > entities. vigorous defence of the accused is aimed at
ensuring
>>> >> >> > that there is no miscarriage of justice -- for instance,
that
>>> >> >> > people who are not guilty are punished, or a guilty
person is
>>> >> >> > meted punishment that is not in consonance with the
guilt. anyone
>>> >> >> > who has even a passing acquaintance with the way indian
courts
>>> >> >> > work, will know that both are very real possibilities.
some
>>> >> >> > sections are convinced that this is a fake encounter.
frankly, i
>>> >> >> > prefer to remain a sceptic on this question. one has
seen too many
>>> >> >> > police theories being blown to bits, not to mention
staged
>>> >> >> > encounters and suchlike. on the other hand, the blasts
were not
>>> >> >> > imaginary and someone carried them out.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > 4. however, if they are proved guilty, that does not
tarnish the
>>> >> >> > entire university just as much as it does not tarnish
the entire
>>> >> >> > community. it is precisely such easy association that
the hindu
>>> >> >> > right, for instance, wishes to establish, and which has
to be
>>> >> >> > contested.
>>> >> >> > 5. while JMI is a national university and belongs to all
of india,
>>> >> >> > it is also located physically in a certain city, and in
a certain
>>> >> >> > area within that city. this dialectic -- national
identity, local
>>> >> >> > presence -- is something all institutions have to
negotiate. i
>>> >> >> > used to teach at the national institute of design in
ahmedabad,
>>> >> >> > and one of the points of critique many of us had with
the
>>> >> >> > institution was that it did very little to engage with
the city
>>> >> >> > and the locality of paldi where it is located. in times
of stress,
>>> >> >> > as during the dec 92 riots, when we were holed up in
curfew for
>>> >> >> > nearly a month, this lack of engagement became painfully
evident.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > 6. while this instance should be used as a precedence to
enlarge
>>> >> >> > the university's sense of responsibility towards its
students,
>>> >> >> > this does not, and must not mean that we should expect
or argue
>>> >> >> > for the university providing legal aid to every student
facing any
>>> >> >> > kind of prosecution. if suppose sanjiv nanda (or
whatever the BMW
>>> >> >> > guy's name is) were a student of JMI, there would be
absolutely no
>>> >> >> > justification for the university to provide him with
legal aid. at
>>> >> >> > the same time, if, say, a poor dalit student is the
victim of
>>> >> >> > casteist violence, she must be provided all legal (and
other) help
>>> by
>>> >> >> > the university. in other words, all such cases, in my
view,
>>> >> >> > require sensitivity to context and circumstance. it is
not, and
>>> >> >> > cannot be, a simple application of a rule. it requires
the
>>> >> >> > university, in particular the VC, to exercise
discretion.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > for sure, such decisions are never easy to take, and it
is always
>>> >> >> > convinient for those in authority to take the line of
least
>>> >> >> > offence. for once, a university administration has acted
boldly
>>> >> >> > and sensitively. for having done so, the VC is now also
the target
>>> >> >> > of attack from the hindu right. i think he needs to be
defended in
>>> >> >> > these circumstances -- even if we might have questions
or doubts
>>> >> >> > about this or that aspect of his decision. i am sure you
will not
>>> >> >> > see my defence of the VC's action as a defence of one
individual,
>>> >> >> > but rather of a larger principle.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > cheers,
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > sudhanva
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > * * * * *
>>> >> >> > Sudhanva Deshpande
>>> >> >> > LeftWord, 12 Rajendra Prasad Road, New Delhi 110001
>>> >> >> > Phones: 2335 9456, 2335 6966 (office), 2526 4822
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----
>>> >> >> > From: iram ghufran <iram_ghufran@ yahoo.co. in>
>>> >> >> > To: mcrc_jamia_alumni@ yahoogroups. com
>>> >> >> > Cc: iram.ghufran@ gmail.com
>>> >> >> > Sent: Friday, 26 September, 2008 2:13:48
>>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [mcrc_jamia_ alumni] Jamia Millia
University should
>>> >> >> > be prosecuted
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Dear Yousuf, all
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > This mail has been sent on various forums (with slight
variation).
>>> >> >> > So please excuse the x posting.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > I have been trying to understand my discomfort with the
University
>>> >> >> > decision to provide legal aid to its students - Mohammad
Shakeel
>>> >> >> > and Zia-ur -Rehman, arrested on charges of terrorist and
anti
>>> >> >> > national activities. Below are some thoughts - formed
and
>>> >> >> > tentative but let me begin with a question - Who else
benefits
>>> >> >> > from this 'show of support' (besides the two boys)?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > And before I go further, let me say very categorically
that like
>>> >> >> > many others on this forum and elsewhere, I believe there
needs to
>>> >> >> > be a judicial inquiry in the Batla House encounter,
attempts
>>> >> >> > should be made to ensure that the students do not remain
in police
>>> >> >> > custody longer than necessary and that pressure should
be built to
>>> >> >> > ensure that they are treated with dignity in police
custody.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Let me raise another question along the lines of the
first: What
>>> >> >> > choices did Mushirul Hasan, Vice Chancellor of Jamia
Millia
>>> >> >> > Islamia have in terms of 'show of support' to his
students?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > In his address to the student body and later at a press
>>> >> >> > conference, Mushirul Hasan, VC of Jamia Millia Islamia
stated that
>>> >> >> > the University would provide legal aid to the arrested
students,
>>> >> >> > from the Student Welfare Fund. I feel that the Vice
Chancellor,
>>> >> >> > should not have promised this. He can provide legal aid
in a
>>> >> >> > personal capacity, as part of a citizens collective but
NOT as
>>> >> >> > Vice Chancellor ON BEHALF of the University.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Before I go into my reasons for saying this, let me add
that my
>>> >> >> > argument is based on the premise that the term 'legal
aid' implies
>>> >> >> > monetary help to fund a court case - specially for
people who
>>> >> >> > would otherwise not have a fair legal representation.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > The VC cited an earlier incident when armed policemen
forcibly
>>> >> >> > entered the SRK boys hostel, beat up and took in custody
many
>>> >> >> > students. He is using this as a precedent for Jamia to
support the
>>> >> >> > two students on issue under discussion. For a PUCL
report on the
>>> >> >> > previos episode, see - http://www.pucl. org/reports/
Delhi/delhi-
>>> >> >> > jamia.htmThe aforementioned incident happened on campus.
The
>>> >> >> > students were mistreated within the University compound,
under the
>>> >> >> > 'guardianship' of the VC, the Proctor, the Registrar,
and the
>>> >> >> > hostel Warden. The University administration,
responsible for the
>>> >> >> > welfare of the students residing on campus was unable to
prevent
>>> >> >> > this unfair police action.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > The Butla House encounter and arrests are a different
issue. Here
>>> >> >> > the charges on the students have nothing to do with
their academic
>>> >> >> > life (they allegedly did not blow up the chemistry lab
in a failed
>>> >> >> > experiment), nor their non- academic university life
(they did not
>>> >> >> > injure spectators in a inter university football
championship) .
>>> >> >> > They were certainly not representing Jamia Millia
Islamia or the
>>> >> >> > University ideals of universal brotherhood, peace and
secularism
>>> >> >> > in the act that they have been accused of committing
(falsely or
>>> >> >> > not). I am not sure if the University is responsible for
student
>>> >> >> > activities outside the campus...
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > My question is that if for example, the University has
two
>>> >> >> > thousand students on its rolls, and even two percent of
them get
>>> >> >> > involved in some form of litigation, will Jamia Millia
be willing
>>> >> >> > to support 40 cases a year - cases that may drag on,
beyond the
>>> >> >> > academic term of the enrolled student? Will the
University provide
>>> >> >> > 'legal aid' to students accused of other 'anti State',
'anti
>>> >> >> > national' activities (such as aiding militants in the
north East,
>>> >> >> > Kashmir, maoists in Orissa, Chattisgarh) ?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > If a University believes itself to be the guardian of
its students
>>> >> >> > and in that capacity provides legal aid, then there have
to be
>>> >> >> > norms laid down - Which cases will get primacy? Who will
decide
>>> >> >> > which particular student should be legally supported and
which
>>> >> >> > student should be left to his or her own devices? The
University
>>> >> >> > also has to take into account the thousands of other
students and
>>> >> >> > its responsibility to them. By making Jamia Millia
Islamia, an
>>> >> >> > interested party in this 'case', the VC has dragged not
only the
>>> >> >> > University, faculty, staff, students into this
unfortunate series
>>> >> >> > of events but has put at stake the Universitys
reputation. Does
>>> >> >> > the VC have a plan of action, in case the arrested
students are
>>> >> >> > implicated on charges of terrorism? Will the logic of
'innocent
>>> >> >> > until proven guilty' help the rest of the students
adjust to a
>>> >> >> > world that will see them as 'supporters' of 'terrorists'
. It will
>>> >> >> > 'not be the end of the story' but perhaps the beginning
of a
>>> >> >> > more gruesome one. Even if one of these students is
sentenced to
>>> >> >> > even one year of jail for aiding/ abetting an anti
national act,
>>> >> >> > it is not just an individual who will lose face, it is
not a team
>>> >> >> > of lawyers, activists, supports who will lose face, it
will be the
>>> >> >> > institution which lays claim to being the 'liberal' face
of the
>>> >> >> > Indian muslim. Has the VC calculated the implications of
this?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > I feel that an autonomous body (perhaps with University
support -
>>> >> >> > Jamia, JNU and DU) should be set up - that provides
legal aid and
>>> >> >> > counseling to students. The Universities can provide
financial
>>> >> >> > support to such a body, the students can contribute and
raise
>>> >> >> > independent funding. This is a tentative proposition
which has had
>>> >> >> > precedent in various forms of Committees for Defense for
people
>>> >> >> > accused of 'crimes' against the 'State'.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > I understand that a strong political statement was the
need of the
>>> >> >> > hour. But was a commitment to legal aid the only option?
Still
>>> >> >> > thinking...
>>> >> >> > Warm regards
>>> >> >> > Iram
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > PS: Regarding the Jamia neighbourhood, the VC stated
that the boys
>>> >> >> > are being supported because they are students of Jamia
Millia and
>>> >> >> > not because they are residents of a particular area.
Jamia is a
>>> >> >> > central university and students from all over the
country and
>>> >> >> > abroad are enrolled here. A student from Manipur (with
her
>>> >> >> > concerns regarding AFSPA) has as much claim to Jamia as
a student
>>> >> >> > from Zakir Nagar (with her concerns regarding
representation of
>>> >> >> > her community). I dont feel comfortable with linking the
>>> >> >> > 'destinies' of the neighbourhood (with Zakir Nagar,
Batla House,
>>> >> >> > Joga Bai, Shaheen Bagh, Hari Kothi, and more of Okhla)
with the
>>> >> >> > University (with UP, Bihar, Assam, Orissa, Kazakhastan,
Iran etc).
>>> >> >> > Yousuf, I share your concerns about the neighbourhood in
all its
>>> >> >> > complexities (migration, land mafia, media
misrepresentation) but
>>> >> >> > somehow I dont understand why Jamia is treated like a
'mohalle ka
>>> >> >> > University'. I'm still trying to gather my thoughts on
this and
>>> >> >> > perhaps we could discuss them at a later stage.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > ============ ========= ========= =
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----
>>> >> >> > From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo. com>
>>> >> >> > To: radhikarajen@ vsnl.net; reader-list@ sarai.net;
srirang jha
>>> >> >> > <jha.srirang@ gmail.com>
>>> >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, 24 September, 2008 9:48:10 PM
>>> >> >> > Subject: [mcrc_jamia_ alumni] Re: [Reader-list] Jamia
Millia
>>> >> >> > University should be prosecuted
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Dear Srirang Jha
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Your statement: "why an intellectual like Mushirul Hasan
would
>>> >> >> > indulge in such a pastime" I think this is precisely the
problem
>>> >> >> > here. Most social problems in our midst crop up because
the
>>> >> >> > intellectuals don't want to come down to "such
pastimes". I think
>>> >> >> > its a great step (although risky) for Mushirul Hasan to
take a
>>> >> >> > stand here. He said that as VC he is the guardian of all
students,
>>> >> >> > and will help them legally UNTIL PROVED GUILTY. It is
very easy
>>> >> >> > otherwise to allow the law to take its own course. Many
thousands
>>> >> >> > of accused (depending on state's legal aid) are
languishing in our
>>> >> >> > jails, not proven guilty yet. IF these boys are proven
guilty,
>>> >> >> > then of course, the end of the story.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > But besides that, it also very important for Jamia to
make a
>>> >> >> > social intervention into its neighbourhood. Would you
rather
>>> >> >> > ignore the area and the community and allow more
disturbing
>>> >> >> > elements to thrive there, or take a bold risk and try to
eliminate
>>> >> >> > them. The terror cannot be eradicated until many
>>> >> >> > elements/institutio ns of the society (university, local
leaders,
>>> >> >> > RWAs, police, NGOs, and activists) don't come together.
>>> >> >> > Unfortunately, so far there is very little trust between
all these
>>> >> >> > elements. Moreover, we are also trying to prove that the
NGOs and
>>> >> >> > activists are actually the enemies of the state.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Only the brutal force of the police can never eradicate
terrorism.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Yousuf
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > --- On Wed, 9/24/08, srirang jha <jha.srirang@ gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > > From: srirang jha <jha.srirang@ gmail.com>
>>> >> >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Jamia Millia University
should be
>>> >> >> > prosecuted> To: radhikarajen@ vsnl.net, reader-list@
sarai.net
>>> >> >> > > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 9:23 PM
>>> >> >> > > Jamia Millia Islamia is setting a wrong example by
providing
>>> >> >> > > legal aid to
>>> >> >> > > the accused in Delhi bomb blast. The University exists
for
>>> >> >> > > education and
>>> >> >> > > nothing else. Our constitution provides for legal
>>> >> >> > > assistance to any one who
>>> >> >> > > cannot afford a lawyer. So the students of JMI who are
>>> >> >> > > arrested for their
>>> >> >> > > alleged role in the Blast may get legal assistance
from the
>>> >> >> > > Legal Aid Cell
>>> >> >> > > of the Supreme Court of India.
>>> >> >> > > I do not understand why an intellectual like Mushirul
Hasan
>>> >> >> > > would indulge in
>>> >> >> > > such a pastime as this. Let the law of the land take
its
>>> >> >> > > course.
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > Srirang Jha
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 6:44 PM,
>>> >> >> > > <radhikarajen@ vsnl.net> wrote:
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > > Unfortunately, this attitude and action of the
>>> >> >> > > institutions and NGOs which
>>> >> >> > > > makes them communal. It only gives more courage to
be
>>> >> >> > > fundamentalists in
>>> >> >> > > > secular society be it for a hindu or a muslim or a
>>> >> >> > > christian, if you have
>>> >> >> > > > support to be fanatic why not. !
>>> >> >> > > >
>>> >> >> > > > Regards.
>>> >> >> > > >
>>> >> >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> >> > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj@ gmail.com>
>>> >> >> > > > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:55 am
>>> >> >> > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Jamia Millia University
should
>>> >> >> > > be prosecuted
>>> >> >> > > > To: sarai list <reader-list@ sarai.net>
>>> >> >> > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > Jamia Millia University should be
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > prosecuted<http://offstumped. nationalinterest
.in/2008/
>>> >> >> > 09/23/jamia-
>>> >> >> > > > > millia-university- should-be- prosecuted/ >
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > *The Jamia Millia Islamia University would
>>> >> >> > > provide legal aid to two
>>> >> >> > > > > suspended students who have been arrested by
>>> >> >> > > Delhi Police for being
>>> >> >> > > > > allegedly involved in the serial blasts in the
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > capital<http://offstumped. nationalinterest .in/2008/
09/19/war-
>>> >> >> > on-
>>> >> >> > > > > terror-offstumped- salute-to- indias-pride/ >.
>>> >> >> > > > > *
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > **
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > *"Legal aid would be provided till they are
>>> >> >> > > not found guilty," varsity
>>> >> >> > > > > spokesperson Rakshanda Jaleel on Tuesday said.*
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > Offstumped has unearthed the Jamia Millia Islamia
>>> >> >> > > Act of
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > 1988<http://education. nic.in/cd50years /x/7H/8M/
7H8M0101. htm>
>>> >> >> > > > > .
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > There is no provision within this act for the
>>> >> >> > > University to
>>> >> >> > > > > provide legal
>>> >> >> > > > > aid to students, period, forget personal or
>>> >> >> > > university related,
>>> >> >> > > > > guilty or
>>> >> >> > > > > not guilty.
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > Its powers are very clear.
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > Please visit the following link for more -
>>> >> >> > > > > Jamia Millia University should be
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > prosecuted<http://offstumped. nationalinterest
.in/2008/
>>> >> >> > 09/23/jamia-
>>> >> >> > > > > millia-university- should-be- prosecuted/ >
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > PTI reports
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > *The Jamia Millia Islamia University would
>>> >> >> > > provide legal aid to two
>>> >> >> > > > > suspended students who have been arrested by
>>> >> >> > > Delhi Police for being
>>> >> >> > > > > allegedly involved in the serial blasts in the
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > capital<http://offstumped. nationalinterest .in/2008/
09/19/war-
>>> >> >> > on-
>>> >> >> > > > > terror-offstumped- salute-to- indias-pride/ >.
>>> >> >> > > > > *
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > **
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > *"Legal aid would be provided till they are
>>> >> >> > > not found guilty," varsity
>>> >> >> > > > > spokesperson Rakshanda Jaleel on Tuesday said.*
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > Offstumped has unearthed the Jamia Millia Islamia
>>> >> >> > > Act of
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > 1988<http://education. nic.in/cd50years /x/7H/8M/
7H8M0101. htm>
>>> >> >> > > > > .
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > There is no provision within this act for the
>>> >> >> > > University to
>>> >> >> > > > > provide legal
>>> >> >> > > > > aid to students, period, forget personal or
>>> >> >> > > university related,
>>> >> >> > > > > guilty or
>>> >> >> > > > > not guilty.
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > > > Its powers are very clear. -
>>> >> >> > > > > Jamia Millia University should be
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> > > prosecuted<http://offstumped. nationalinterest
.in/2008/
>>> >> >> > 09/23/jamia-
>>> >> >> > > > > millia-university- should-be- prosecuted/ >
>>> >> >> > > > >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Get an email ID as yourname at ymail. com or
yourname at rocketmail
>>> >> >> > .com. Click here http://in.promos. yahoo.com/ address
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > __._,_.___
>>> >> >> > Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) |
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