[Reader-list] Brahminical dominence ?

[Shuddhabrata Sengupta]

Is this character called Ram or Rama not the same arrogant king who  
once killed a scholar called Shambuka
because he was found studying the scriptures. The crime being that  
Shambuka was an untouchable and so could not touch the scriptures,  
even with his mind.

Would I want to live in a society where kings slaughter scholars for  
the crime of their curiosity?  No, I would not. I touch a lot of  
stuff with my impure mind, and I want to live safe from stupid kings  
who don't know better. I think we ought to be grateful that Ram Rajya  
is as yet a distant dream of a lunatic fringe. Lets hope it stays  
that way.

best

Shuddha
On 22-Apr-09, at 2:27 PM, Venugopalan K M wrote:

>> "..."As to Rama Rajya, let it be remembered that Rama was kshatriya
> king who administered his subjects wth care and concern for public
> opinion. A doubt about his own wife as expressed by a subject made him
> take the harsh step to send his wife to the forests when she was
> pregnent, to the Ashram. Todays leaders do not care for the public
> opinion as much as they did , but generate public opinion thru media
> and other means for their agendas, is my perception".."
>
> But that is excatly what I would rather take objection to not just
> your concept of 'Rajya' but also its iconic hero, Ram.
> Please excuse me when I say that this vulgar expression  of
> "prajahitham"(public opinion) against a poor woman  is nothing
> different from its newer versions of  "hithams" of Sri Ram Senes!
>
>  While it is repugnant to humanity, seen even  by the standards of
> ancient monarchy  it is much more unacceptable to the standards of
> human rights  of our age. It would be a grave instance of atrocity
> perpetrated against women with impunity by the kings in the name of
> 'public opinion'. What sort of king was he to grow suspicious of the
> chastity of his queen lived in forced exile , and yet to take recourse
> to 'public opinion' (most probably manufactured) to justify throwing
> her to fire? What bloody business this poor dhobi family had to
> suspect Sita as a bad woman? In my understanding, this is nothing but
> projection of source of one's own ill feeling to  someone else,
> skulking away from taking up the  moral  responsibility. The kind of
> relationship the king had with the queen, perhaps might have gone to
> deep trouble even otherwise.
>
> Well, this tendency to dupe people by spreading cock and bull stories
> about dharma in an effort to justify the most grotesque violence
> against women and the lower caste people might be part of the essence
> of Ramarajya of the past as well as the present, and this is what many
> people call Brahmanism.  Whatever you call this, you are supporting
> this and suggesting that 'Rama Rajya ' would help us cure of our ills.
> The headache is yours and not of others who don't want to believe
> these parables over laden with instruments of moral policing.
> Regards,
> Venu
> .
>
>
>
> 22, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Rajen Uppinangadi  
> <rajen882uppinangadi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>     Venu;
>>
>>   Such general sweeping comments do not hold water in pluralistic  
>> society
>> like this free India. To condemn the "brahminical" thinking itself is
>> absurd, as brahminical way of thinking is for "sarve jana sukhino  
>> bhavanthu,
>> in Vasudaiva kutumbakam.
>>
>>   While it is true that in every faith, the women are subjugated,  
>> denied
>> education and are less privileged with rights and the accent is  
>> more on
>> their duties, it is absurd to say that hindu way of life  
>> encourages such in
>> equality, for if it was so, gargi and maithreyi would not have had  
>> the place
>> in the arguments for the society.The marad killings would not have  
>> happened
>> when children and women were massacred in your backyard of Kerala.  
>> Shah Bano
>> case would not have been the instance to talk about where  
>> livelihood was
>> denied for a woman.Compared to other faiths, hindu way of life has
>> exceptional place for women in modern living, unlike taliban which  
>> shoots
>> down the couple if found walking together, the mullas would not  
>> proclaim
>> fathwas for the saving of a father for raping his own daughter. With
>> changing times, it is reforms that have taken place in hindu way  
>> of life
>> from within religion rather than outside, thanks to persons like Raja
>> Rammohan Roy, Jyothi Phule , and many other reformists, in modern  
>> times even
>> Ambedkar has contributed his might to reforms in the way society  
>> treats the
>> oppressed. But the political will to reforms in society has to  
>> come from
>> within the society as no amounts of laws can change as seen in  
>> Dowry act,
>> and the dowry menace is flourishing in all faiths.In fact, the roman
>> catholic weddings in Kerala are notorious for the wedding and  
>> lavish dory
>> angle to them, as clergy would bless the couple who part with  
>> substantially
>> dirty, obscene amounts for such blessing of an arch bishop, as was  
>> told to
>> me by a bishop friend.
>>
>> So, to generalise the menace of oppression only to one way of  
>> life, hindu is
>> not only reflects the general trend of condemning whatever is  
>> hindu, as
>> brahminical. As to Rama Rajya, let it be remembered that Rama was  
>> kshatriya
>> king who administered his subjects wth care and concern for public  
>> opinion.
>> A doubt about his own wife as expressed by a subject made him take  
>> the harsh
>> step to send his wife to the forests when she was pregnent, to the  
>> Ashram.
>> Todays leaders do not care for the public opinion as much as they  
>> did , but
>> generate public opinion thru media and other means for their  
>> agendas, is my
>> perception.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Rajen.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Venugopalan K M  
>> <kmvenuannur at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Rajen,
>>>
>>> By adopting such a position on Brahmanical and Brahmanism, one  
>>> will stand
>>> to lose the very usefulness of this important concept. As you  
>>> were stating
>>> it has less to do with propagating hate than understanding the  
>>> exceptionally
>>> institutionalized and ritualized  hate in the social and cultural  
>>> life of
>>> India.
>>> This is sure to  raise lot of other questions: Why, for example   
>>> after the
>>> happening of the Khairlanji in September 2006 {almost the entire  
>>> people of a
>>> village participate in the act of parading naked,raping, 
>>> (women),killing and
>>> mutilating the bodies of the 4 victims who were members of a  
>>> dalit family
>>> (converted to Budhism) }, the entire media kept silence for about  
>>> one month?
>>> So , an understanding of  Brahmanism together with  Brahmanical  
>>> ways of
>>> thinking,  not only does not talk of  Brahmans as persons but  
>>> more as a
>>> collective and  typically  negative attitude. It is characterized by
>>> defending privileges with respect to the ascending order of caste  
>>> and
>>> denying equality; significantly women of all castes are  
>>> automatically
>>> considered inferior to their male counterparts(this is also seen  
>>> in every
>>> other religion; but practices of cruelty to widows ,women not  
>>> giving birth
>>> to to male offsprings, not able to consummate marriage etc,etc  
>>> are viewed
>>> with special contempt in the brahmanical Hinduism).The extremely  
>>> negative
>>> attitude to change or reform is a direct result of a desire to  
>>> protect the
>>> system of privileges to the exclusion of others. These are  
>>> generally what
>>> are considered as traits associated with  
>>> Brahmanism.Unfortunately, majority
>>> of victims of this system of heirarchy are ideologically co-opted  
>>> to it;
>>> they are not expected to doubt the system which is has been  
>>> taught to them
>>> as divinely ordained.They are expected to just obey  without  
>>> grumbles and
>>> get better off in the future birth.(Chathrvarnam maya srushtam  
>>> guna karma
>>> vibhagasa- The system has been created by me according to your  
>>> past karma
>>> and your qualities and just do your caste-ordained duties-this is  
>>> the
>>> message of Bhagvan in Gita (Ch IX verse 32 ?..I don't remember it  
>>> correctly)
>>> I'm not suggesting that every person believing in the Hindu  
>>> scriptures and
>>> the Gita would support mass murders and ritualistic killings of  
>>> dalits as
>>> happened in khairlanji..not that the media always will attempt to  
>>> cover up
>>> such incidents.To be certain, in the media controlled by the  
>>> upper caste
>>> Hindus,there is always a tendency to underplay the unpleasant  
>>> factors
>>> related with caste. Gandhi was a great admirer and interpretor of  
>>> Gita and
>>> yet he was assassinated by Godse, who was a fanatic adherent of
>>> Brahmanism.But even Gandhi believed in a Ramarajya of his own  
>>> notion..so are
>>> the less enlightened 'Hindu' masses  to a greater or lesser  
>>> degree in
>>> denying equality to women and lower castes, the very victims of
>>> discriminations included.Then, not to speak of the tendency to  
>>> resist
>>> reservations and to monopolize knowledge and power by a minority.  
>>> Certainly,
>>> the print media dominated by the upper caste plays a significant  
>>> role  in
>>> perpetuating the bias against the under privileged.The internet  
>>> and the
>>> electronic media at a more globalized level, are able to  
>>> challenge this
>>> privilege of the upper caste elites in  significant ways.
>>> Regards,
>>> Venu.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Venu.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Rajen Uppinangadi
>>> <rajen882uppinangadi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>     Venu,
>>>>
>>>>     List is at times, makes up for the surprise packages for all  
>>>> with
>>>> undertones of "caste"  and is casted with caste as theme of  
>>>> hate, if one
>>>> post talks of twice born as brahmins, another talks of brahminical
>>>> domination of media, which are again myths to say the least, if  
>>>> otherwise it
>>>> is meant to be "learned" are brahmins, knowledgeable   "caste",  
>>>> then may be
>>>> it is acceptable but still as we strive for togetherness above  
>>>> the caste and
>>>> faith conundrums of hate, it is really ammusing that of all you  
>>>> start with
>>>> this theme of hate on the basi of caste.?
>>>>
>>>>   To illustrate, Mr. Kancha Illayya, regular columnist, who  
>>>> takes up
>>>> issues of oppressed is a brahmin by his domination in media with  
>>>> the issues,
>>>> just as sage Vishwamitra who gave the most potent manthra,  
>>>> Gayathri, is
>>>> brahmin by his work, not by birth.? But contrary examples are  
>>>> also are
>>>> visible in society, where by birth some are brahmins, but  
>>>> behaviour is that
>>>> of worse than  anyone, like the Dr. Murli manohar Joshi, in his  
>>>> acts and
>>>> utterances.? Again, a journalist and lecturer in Physics., Dr.  
>>>> Joshi, who
>>>> blindly follows the rituals without knowing the reasons behind  
>>>> such rituals,
>>>> is again worse off even as brahmin born, as birth does not give  
>>>> the right to
>>>> oppress others.? For example, the meaning of twice born is that  
>>>> once the
>>>> child is born, at the tender age of around 12 years, he is vowed  
>>>> to go for
>>>> higher studies to Benares, and the trip being in olden days,  
>>>> hazardous, it
>>>> was presumed to be secong birth to undertake such a long journey  
>>>> for
>>>> education, times have changed with chools imparting education at  
>>>> hop, skip
>>>> and jump distances from homes these days.?
>>>>
>>>>   As to media and media houses, most of them are run atleast in  
>>>> Karnataka
>>>> by Idigas, or theeyas, or known in slang as toddy tappers, so  
>>>> the education
>>>> has changed everything, let us come out of this caste fixation,  
>>>> judge the
>>>> works rather than the caste.Visual media channels are again run by
>>>> individuals who know how to run the business with trps, news is  
>>>> not what
>>>> viewers want, but what the channels dish out as views in news in  
>>>> this age of
>>>> info-tainment. Otherwise how do you explain the anchors and  
>>>> their behaviour
>>>> with type of presentation of "news" compared to western media,  
>>>> where anchors
>>>> are better dressed with least exposure of made up face and bodies.?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Rajen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://venukm.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> http://venukm.blogspot.com/
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with  
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>

Shuddhabrata Sengupta
The Sarai Programme at CSDS
Raqs Media Collective
shuddha at sarai.net
www.sarai.net
www.raqsmediacollective.net