[Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS

anupam chakravartty c.anupam at gmail.com
Sat Aug 1 11:53:09 IST 2009 

Dear Ram,

Religiousity can exist without the political baggage of the fanatics.
Banning the sects is not a solution but it only proposes homogenisation and
a God less world. For some, this faith in god is simple, doesnt need the
sanction of fanatical elements. I hope a careful assessment of the
religiousity of the people has to be ascertained along with the several
other surveys to understand this nation.

"We have only two options: either we learn to live with "communal" strive
that has
become the order of the day or make a complete break with all our past that
segregates us
and begin anew. Its a tall order we know but nevertheless worth aspiring
for. Atleast its better
than the current non-sense of  just "boycotting the sectarian agendas"."

I believe by "tall order" you meant religion or sect or similar things.
These terms need introspection clearly in terms of philosophical basis. For
settling your personal scores, it is not neccesary that one has find the
religion as an excuse. Because most of the religious knowledge or the way it
is being structured is in *a priori *form and as we have seen open to
interpretations. However, the dynamic and progressive elements for all the
religions are intact and often overlooked.

Therefore, the appeal for boycott of the sectarian agenda which prescribes
killing in the name of the religion still stands as opposed to how you have
termed it as nonsensesical.

Thanks and regards
Anupam



On 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram <pheeta.ram at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Murali,
> Institutions run by religious sects would be like that only otherwise why
> would they set
> up schools in the name of their religions in the first place. Every
> religion has an agenda.
> More the followers more the currency. But what i am pointing towards is the
> fact that
> even a school run by a government, and just imagine how many schools are
> there all over
> India, indulges in practices, and "uniformly" so, which are nothing short
> of proselytisation.
> When my son is asked to chant a Hindu Gayatri Mantra, or prayers that talk
> of "Atma" and
> "Parmatma" isn't it silent conversion to Hindu faith by a government that
> needs to be neutral
> in terms of religion.
>
> When you level charges, let me tell you, "opposite is true too." So don't
> exert yourself so hard.
> Moreover, if i am discriminated against my religion that doesn't give me
> the right to read "fatwas"
> against people who "just" extend the boundaries of citizenship to our
> relief. I won't ask my little son
> to go and kill his classmates just because he is being asked to chant a
> "mantra" that he has come
> to believe he doesn't need to or is unjustified ( given my brainwashing) in
> the first place. He has the right
> to be nurtured in a world where he is not preordained into the watertight
> compartment of some religion.
>
> Things are not so simple and straightforward as you would have them to be.
> In a public discussion forum
> everybody needs to be patient and not panic just because some "fan-atic"
> has fanned an imaginary jingoitst
> or communal frenzy.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Murali V <murali.chalam at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Anupam,
>> I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My only
>> concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed with
>> absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism which
>> is
>> the norm.
>>
>> A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys to come
>> with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and  with a black towel worn around
>> the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, does not
>> allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a school
>> run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to school in a
>> Burkha.
>>
>> The word "uniform" is not applicable to some.
>>
>> Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip, while
>> Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the himalayas.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Murali V
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> tion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Murli,
>> > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about
>> > Murshidabad
>> > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a sectarian
>> > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in the
>> > region
>> > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in the
>> > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to accomodate
>> a
>> > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful employment.
>> > Here
>> > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like terrorism,
>> > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear and
>> > threats.
>> > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a fair
>> play.
>> > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity functioning
>> > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than what they
>> > are
>> > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of fear
>> from
>> > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people crazy. A
>> > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to
>> perform
>> > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They inherently
>> want
>> > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that there
>> is
>> > no
>> > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are doing.
>> > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a homogenous
>> > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the
>> individual
>> > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all
>> kinds,
>> > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control subversion? You
>> > cannot afford to be unfair here.
>> >
>> > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits that it
>> > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, you have
>> > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of multi
>> racial
>> > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance at the
>> > cost
>> > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a
>> > philosophical
>> > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is likely
>> > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates
>> conflicts
>> > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from small
>> > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a
>> seperate
>> > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of painful task
>> of
>> > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes an
>> easier
>> > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I said:
>> "I
>> > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an
>> assurance
>> > to
>> > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will
>> > keep
>> > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." You
>> are
>> > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as
>> someone
>> > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing me is
>> not
>> > enough Sir.
>> > - with warm regards
>> > Anupam
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V <murali.chalam at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims.
>> > > Regards,
>> > > V Murali
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty <
>> c.anupam at gmail.com
>> > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Dear Rajen
>> > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's list
>> > doesnt
>> > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir that
>> > the
>> > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of such
>> > >> agendas.
>> > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an
>> > >> assurance
>> > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I
>> > will
>> > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims.
>> > Take
>> > >> my word for that.
>> > >> Best wishes
>> > >> Anupam
>> > >>
>> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
>> > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of us,
>> as
>> > we
>> > >> > post.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Regards,
>> > >> > Rajen.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty <
>> > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >> Dear Rajen
>> > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you
>> rajen.
>> > i
>> > >> >> guess
>> > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on
>> > questioning
>> > >> >> them
>> > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against a
>> > >> >> community
>> > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what
>> you
>> > >> said
>> > >> >> to
>> > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then
>> > point
>> > >> out
>> > >> >> others
>> > >> >> -anupam
>> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
>> > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee,
>> > >> >> >     who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so
>> > also
>> > >> the
>> > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own
>> islam.?If
>> > >> any
>> > >> >> of us
>> > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not
>> speak
>> > >> for
>> > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to express
>> > art
>> > >> in
>> > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.?
>> Art
>> > is
>> > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > Regards,
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > Rajen.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty <
>> > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote:
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >> Dear Rajen,
>> > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious
>> > extremism.
>> > >> >> along
>> > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these
>> issues.
>> > >> if u
>> > >> >> >> can
>> > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my
>> earlier
>> > >> >> >> position,
>> > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I
>> wish
>> > to
>> > >> >> argue
>> > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my
>> advice
>> > >> is
>> > >> >> that
>> > >> >> >> u
>> > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise
>> > >> others.
>> > >> >> i
>> > >> >> >> do
>> > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens
>> it
>> > >> is
>> > >> >> also
>> > >> >> >> welcome.
>> > >> >> >> - best wishes
>> > >> >> >> anupam
>> > >> >> >>
>> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer <
>> > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
>> > >> >> >> wrote:
>> > >> >> >>
>> > >> >> >> > Dear all
>> > >> >> >> >
>> > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to
>> > resonate
>> > >> >> with
>> > >> >> >> what
>> > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do,
>> but
>> > >> don't
>> > >> >> >> force
>> > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego'
>> > >> >> >> >
>> > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen
>> ji,
>> > >> and
>> > >> >> >> others
>> > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or
>> > >> >> criticizing
>> > >> >> >> > them.
>> > >> >> >> >
>> > >> >> >> > Regards
>> > >> >> >> >
>> > >> >> >> > Rakesh
>> > >> >> >> >
>> > >> >> >> _________________________________________
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>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > --
>> > >> >> > Rajen.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> _________________________________________
>> > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations
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>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > --
>> > >> > Rajen.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> _________________________________________
>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations
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>> > >
>> > >
>> > _________________________________________
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