[Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS

[Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi]

Dear Anupam, and all,
    are you not forwarding your sectarian agenda on to the list.? Why this
double standards, if the thoughts are not liked or acceptable you have right
to dissent, disagree, but you talk of swords and fights.!

In all my posts I have emphasized the humanitarian aspects of the society,
never hated the faith of any denomination, but positively disagreed with
fanatics of all faiths when they "impose" their faith in words and posts and
the actions, and as to naming, if you are keen, please note that the posts
regarding the national ids and their implementation is opposed with
arguments regarding funds, use of funds and all issues about tendering to
big companies etc, but the latent fear factor is oblivious, that the
activities , both good and illegal can be monitored, why not may i ask, for
the good of the society.?Why should any citizen be scared to be noted for
his activities if he is not in to mischief of sheltoring, helping and
providing logistic supports to anti national activities, for his fanatic
faith, for money and other inducements why not the citizens be protected
against such acts.?We have seen in the convicted accused of Mumbai blasts,
few customs officials who went for corruption facilitating landing of
explosives and arms.? Quite a few were involved because substantial amount
of money was paid, faith was only justification for the jihad.? Worst, when
the death fell on victims of the terror, the death and miseries did not
discriminate in delivery of misery , hurt, injuries and death on their faith
as all of different faith had to share this.! Kasab when shot in CST, the
first lot of five deaths were of a poor muslim family, in his jihad.! So
what is the sectarian point you are trying to make out of my posts, when i
seek my God in the good of all living beings, not in temples, mosques or
churches.?

As to damaged temples or any place of worship, and also the governance,
system of governance and political parties are not construction companies to
do that job, it is for the rule of laws to settle the matters pending in the
courts for decades, and the citizens to contribute and construct their place
of worship in good harmony with society.System of governance should not have
any "faith" in its governance of faiths be it wakf,or mujrai, leave it to
that faith to manage their affairs, like they have done for some faiths,
selectively.
  .System of governance has no business to govern the faiths, but only
deliver good of democracy as per rule of laws, to each of its constituted
member   -  of all faiths, irrespective of his/her  faith, caste, or gender
or clor  of his / her skin.

Discrimination based on any of the above, favouring one group of individuals
on the basis of any of the above mentioned  is bad governance, which leads
to frustration, to protests, some peaceful, some violent, thus violence
breeds further  on itself.

Well, as you may have wrongly presumed, I do not beieve in violence or
sword, but self defence is another matter.For that strong mind, intellect is
enough to face the pen or sword, or both.

Regards,
  Rajen.
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:24 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote:

> Dear Murali,
>
> I never spoke about Gayatri Mantri or anything about it. Where does this
> come from sir? I think you must be mistaken.
>
> -Anupam
>
>
> On 8/1/09, Murali V <murali.chalam at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > That is because U had stated that Gayatri Mantra is of religious nature
> > which I had countered.
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:19 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Murali,
> >>
> >> My issue here why are we discussng burqa clad women going to school on
> >> this
> >> reader's list sir. what difference did it make to your belief system or
> >> how
> >> did it threaten your existence? Also if chanting Gayatri mantra helps
> you
> >> to
> >> breathe better how or why does this reader's list has to bear the
> effects?
> >>
> >> -anupam
> >>
> >> On 8/1/09, Murali V <murali.chalam at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Dear Anupam,
> >> >
> >> > Dear Anupam,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad
> girl
> >> in
> >> > a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire
> >> > pseudo-seculars go all out to  call it hindu fanaticism.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is
> >> their
> >> > in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing
> exercise
> >> as
> >> > the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control
> >> breath.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > V Murali
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Pheeta Ram <pheeta.ram at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Dear Murali,
> >> >> Institutions run by religious sects would be like that only otherwise
> >> why
> >> >> would they set
> >> >> up schools in the name of their religions in the first place. Every
> >> >> religion has an agenda.
> >> >> More the followers more the currency. But what i am pointing towards
> is
> >> >> the fact that
> >> >> even a school run by a government, and just imagine how many schools
> >> are
> >> >> there all over
> >> >> India, indulges in practices, and "uniformly" so, which are nothing
> >> short
> >> >> of proselytisation.
> >> >> When my son is asked to chant a Hindu Gayatri Mantra, or prayers that
> >> talk
> >> >> of "Atma" and
> >> >> "Parmatma" isn't it silent conversion to Hindu faith by a government
> >> that
> >> >> needs to be neutral
> >> >> in terms of religion.
> >> >>
> >> >> When you level charges, let me tell you, "opposite is true too." So
> >> don't
> >> >> exert yourself so hard.
> >> >> Moreover, if i am discriminated against my religion that doesn't give
> >> me
> >> >> the right to read "fatwas"
> >> >> against people who "just" extend the boundaries of citizenship to our
> >> >> relief. I won't ask my little son
> >> >> to go and kill his classmates just because he is being asked to chant
> a
> >> >> "mantra" that he has come
> >> >> to believe he doesn't need to or is unjustified ( given my
> >> brainwashing)
> >> >> in the first place. He has the right
> >> >> to be nurtured in a world where he is not preordained into the
> >> watertight
> >> >> compartment of some religion.
> >> >>
> >> >> Things are not so simple and straightforward as you would have them
> to
> >> be.
> >> >> In a public discussion forum
> >> >> everybody needs to be patient and not panic just because some
> >> "fan-atic"
> >> >> has fanned an imaginary jingoitst
> >> >> or communal frenzy.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Murali V <murali.chalam at gmail.com
> >> >wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Dear Anupam,
> >> >>> I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My
> only
> >> >>> concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed
> with
> >> >>> absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism
> >> which
> >> >>> is
> >> >>> the norm.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys to
> >> come
> >> >>> with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and  with a black towel worn
> >> around
> >> >>> the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, does
> >> not
> >> >>> allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a
> >> >>> school
> >> >>> run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to
> school
> >> in
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> Burkha.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The word "uniform" is not applicable to some.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip,
> >> while
> >> >>> Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the
> >> himalayas.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Regards,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Murali V
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> tion
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty <
> >> c.anupam at gmail.com
> >> >>> >wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > Dear Murli,
> >> >>> > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about
> >> >>> > Murshidabad
> >> >>> > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a
> >> sectarian
> >> >>> > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in
> >> the
> >> >>> > region
> >> >>> > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in
> >> the
> >> >>> > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to
> >> accomodate
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful
> >> employment.
> >> >>> > Here
> >> >>> > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like
> terrorism,
> >> >>> > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear
> >> and
> >> >>> > threats.
> >> >>> > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a
> >> fair
> >> >>> play.
> >> >>> > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity
> >> >>> functioning
> >> >>> > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than
> what
> >> >>> they
> >> >>> > are
> >> >>> > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of
> >> fear
> >> >>> from
> >> >>> > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people
> >> crazy. A
> >> >>> > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to
> >> >>> perform
> >> >>> > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They
> >> inherently
> >> >>> want
> >> >>> > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that
> >> there
> >> >>> is
> >> >>> > no
> >> >>> > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are
> >> doing.
> >> >>> > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a
> >> homogenous
> >> >>> > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the
> >> >>> individual
> >> >>> > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all
> >> >>> kinds,
> >> >>> > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control
> subversion?
> >> You
> >> >>> > cannot afford to be unfair here.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits
> that
> >> it
> >> >>> > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction,
> you
> >> >>> have
> >> >>> > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of
> multi
> >> >>> racial
> >> >>> > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance
> at
> >> the
> >> >>> > cost
> >> >>> > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a
> >> >>> > philosophical
> >> >>> > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is
> >> >>> likely
> >> >>> > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates
> >> >>> conflicts
> >> >>> > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from
> >> >>> small
> >> >>> > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a
> >> >>> seperate
> >> >>> > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of
> painful
> >> >>> task of
> >> >>> > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes
> an
> >> >>> easier
> >> >>> > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I
> >> said:
> >> >>> "I
> >> >>> > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an
> >> >>> assurance
> >> >>> > to
> >> >>> > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I
> >> will
> >> >>> > keep
> >> >>> > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims."
> >> You
> >> >>> are
> >> >>> > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as
> >> >>> someone
> >> >>> > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing
> me
> >> is
> >> >>> not
> >> >>> > enough Sir.
> >> >>> > - with warm regards
> >> >>> > Anupam
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V <
> murali.chalam at gmail.com
> >> >
> >> >>> > wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims.
> >> >>> > > Regards,
> >> >>> > > V Murali
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty <
> >> >>> c.anupam at gmail.com
> >> >>> > >wrote:
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >> Dear Rajen
> >> >>> > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's
> >> list
> >> >>> > doesnt
> >> >>> > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights
> sir
> >> >>> that
> >> >>> > the
> >> >>> > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of
> >> such
> >> >>> > >> agendas.
> >> >>> > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's
> an
> >> >>> > >> assurance
> >> >>> > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas
> >> here
> >> >>> I
> >> >>> > will
> >> >>> > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your
> >> >>> claims.
> >> >>> > Take
> >> >>> > >> my word for that.
> >> >>> > >> Best wishes
> >> >>> > >> Anupam
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
> >> >>> > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all
> of
> >> us,
> >> >>> as
> >> >>> > we
> >> >>> > >> > post.
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > Regards,
> >> >>> > >> > Rajen.
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty <
> >> >>> > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote:
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> Dear Rajen
> >> >>> > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named
> you
> >> >>> rajen.
> >> >>> > i
> >> >>> > >> >> guess
> >> >>> > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on
> >> >>> > questioning
> >> >>> > >> >> them
> >> >>> > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements
> >> against
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> > >> >> community
> >> >>> > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget
> >> what
> >> >>> you
> >> >>> > >> said
> >> >>> > >> >> to
> >> >>> > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act
> >> then
> >> >>> > point
> >> >>> > >> out
> >> >>> > >> >> others
> >> >>> > >> >> -anupam
> >> >>> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
> >> >>> > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >>> > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee,
> >> >>> > >> >> >     who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of
> life,
> >> so
> >> >>> > also
> >> >>> > >> the
> >> >>> > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own
> >> >>> islam.?If
> >> >>> > >> any
> >> >>> > >> >> of us
> >> >>> > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do
> not
> >> >>> speak
> >> >>> > >> for
> >> >>> > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to
> >> >>> express
> >> >>> > art
> >> >>> > >> in
> >> >>> > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own
> >> faith.?
> >> >>> Art
> >> >>> > is
> >> >>> > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce.
> >> >>> > >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> > Regards,
> >> >>> > >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> > Rajen.
> >> >>> > >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty <
> >> >>> > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote:
> >> >>> > >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> >> Dear Rajen,
> >> >>> > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious
> >> >>> > extremism.
> >> >>> > >> >> along
> >> >>> > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to
> these
> >> >>> issues.
> >> >>> > >> if u
> >> >>> > >> >> >> can
> >> >>> > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts
> my
> >> >>> earlier
> >> >>> > >> >> >> position,
> >> >>> > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my
> side.
> >> I
> >> >>> wish
> >> >>> > to
> >> >>> > >> >> argue
> >> >>> > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so
> my
> >> >>> advice
> >> >>> > >> is
> >> >>> > >> >> that
> >> >>> > >> >> >> u
> >> >>> > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and
> >> >>> criticise
> >> >>> > >> others.
> >> >>> > >> >> i
> >> >>> > >> >> >> do
> >> >>> > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that
> >> >>> happens it
> >> >>> > >> is
> >> >>> > >> >> also
> >> >>> > >> >> >> welcome.
> >> >>> > >> >> >> - best wishes
> >> >>> > >> >> >> anupam
> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >>> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer <
> >> >>> > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
> >> >>> > >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >>> > >> >> >> > Dear all
> >> >>> > >> >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems
> to
> >> >>> > resonate
> >> >>> > >> >> with
> >> >>> > >> >> >> what
> >> >>> > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they
> >> do,
> >> >>> but
> >> >>> > >> don't
> >> >>> > >> >> >> force
> >> >>> > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego'
> >> >>> > >> >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji,
> >> Rajen
> >> >>> ji,
> >> >>> > >> and
> >> >>> > >> >> >> others
> >> >>> > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to
> change
> >> or
> >> >>> > >> >> criticizing
> >> >>> > >> >> >> > them.
> >> >>> > >> >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> >> > Regards
> >> >>> > >> >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> >> > Rakesh
> >> >>> > >> >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> >> _________________________________________
> >> >>> > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the
> city.
> >> >>> > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations
> >> >>> > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to
> >> reader-list-request at sarai.netwith
> >> >>> > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header.
> >> >>> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe:
> >> >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> >>> > >> >> >> List archive: &lt;
> >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >>> > >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> > --
> >> >>> > >> >> > Rajen.
> >> >>> > >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> >
> >> >>> > >> >> _________________________________________
> >> >>> > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> >>> > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations
> >> >>> > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to
> >> reader-list-request at sarai.netwith
> >> >>> > >> >> subscribe in the subject header.
> >> >>> > >> >> To unsubscribe:
> >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> >>> > >> >> List archive: &lt;
> >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > --
> >> >>> > >> > Rajen.
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> _________________________________________
> >> >>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> >>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations
> >> >>> > >> To subscribe: send an email to
> reader-list-request at sarai.netwith
> >> >>> > >> subscribe in the subject header.
> >> >>> > >> To unsubscribe:
> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> >>> > >> List archive: &lt;
> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > _________________________________________
> >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header.
> >> >>> > To unsubscribe:
> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> >>> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> _________________________________________
> >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations
> >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >> >>> subscribe in the subject header.
> >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> >>> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> _________________________________________
> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> Critiques & Collaborations
> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >> subscribe in the subject header.
> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >>
> >
> >
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>



-- 
Rajen.