[Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God?

[Pheeta Ram]

Kshmendraji, with due regards...

You still don't seem to have gone through my previous postings otherwise you
certainly would have
beaten me sentence by sentence and rendered "threadbare" my juvenile
arguments and enlightened me
of your stance and my failings deeply desirous of correction. I would love
to accompany your enlightened self on a textual discovery of what i have
written in order not only to understand myself but also to understand what i
"think" about things around me when i write them. Sadly though you are
futilely beating innocent air that fills the empty space between the tips of
your fingers and the heads of your computer keys. You can savour the
"interest" that you have found in how i "'view' religions and the role
played by them and what you would like to be done about them." I hope you
won't mind sharing this "interest" with others on the discussion forum so
that 'we' can at least enter into a constructive discussion, or argument if
you will.

You obsessively compulsively seem to have been stuck on my usage of the word
"shock". I might use the word "interesting" to probe the matters further and
construct a valid and definable "problem" which still eludes me and you are
reluctant to help me in doing that. Some people have hinted that the things
i have been suggesting and writing have already been discussed in the
"history of ideas" and i need to plough more to get the hang of things. Now
if that be the case and that certainly is, would you mind putting my
pseudo-problems/questions/suggestions in perspective. One of my friends has
diagnosed the scene in the temple as a simple case of "contemporary urban
divided/schizophrenic selves."

I admit i am "not in [that much] touch with the realities around" as you are
- which to my mind are mighty complex and multi-layered and need a few more
loaded "drags" to atleast access their textural nuances.

Now something regarding my name: Many people seem to have reserved the
hallowed portals of "swarga" just by chanting my name "Ram ! Ram!". I don't
have any objection provided they get some breathable space in an already
crowded "swarga." I wonder if Indra is thinking of going for skyscrapers.
Some of the inhabitants, i am told, are already thinking of building "gated
communities" in "swarga": a swarga away from swarga...

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji
>
> There is no unease over your contribution to the 'threads'. It was on the
> contrary interesting to see how you 'view' religions and the role played by
> them and what you would like to be done about them.
>
> I only wanted to understand why were you 'shocked' """" to see many kewl
> guys fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself
> out of curiosity to a temple in Delhi.""""""
>
> - were you shocked because they were 'guys'?
> - were you shocked because they were 'kewl' guys?
> - were you shocked because they wore 'jeans'?
> - were you shocked because the jeans were 'branded'?
> - were you shocked  because they were in a 'temple'?
> - were you shocked because they were 'chanting'?
> - were you shocked because they were chanting 'Hanuman Chalisa'?
>
> I also found it interesting that it took your being 'dragged' (by yourself)
> 'out of curiosity to a temple' to have this "shocking" revelation dawn upon
> you.
>
> Maybe you are not in touch with the realities around you. Please do 'drag'
> yourself around a bit more.
>
> Kshmendra
>
> --- On *Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram <pheeta.ram at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Pheeta Ram <pheeta.ram at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is
> God?
> To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:08 PM
>
>
> Is it necessary to reinvent the wheel Kshmendraji? Please refer to the
> threads i have been following and let me know "the point" of your unease.
> I would like to be corrected if there is scope.
> Yours sincerely
> Pheeta Ram
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kshmendra2005@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>>   Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "I was shocked to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting
>> Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in
>> Delhi."
>>
>> Could you please elaborate on why you were "shocked"?
>>
>> Kshmendra
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram <pheeta.ram at gmail.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pheeta.ram@gmail.com>
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Pheeta Ram <pheeta.ram at gmail.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pheeta.ram@gmail.com>
>> >
>> Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God?
>> To: reader-list at sarai.net<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=reader-list@sarai.net>
>> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 2:35 AM
>>
>>   Dear All,
>> I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is:
>> Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be
>> religions
>> (belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By
>> professing
>> one religion
>> i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either
>> follower
>> of some religion
>> or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite their
>> moral-ethical discourse
>> regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. All
>> the saints who have
>> walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies.
>>
>> Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend a
>> lot
>> upon our religious capital
>> for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain
>> community (primarily religious)
>> also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour.
>>
>> By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that
>> sometimes i wonder isn't it time
>> to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn from
>> all the religions and start believing
>> in one community: that is Human.
>>
>> I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on the
>> street or the worker on a Metro site.
>> We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe in
>> each other and not on some transcendental
>> agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary
>> reason
>> why we have failed terribly in creating a
>> community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are
>> afraid.
>> Afraid to believe in somebody who is in
>> front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line who
>> was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got in
>> and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that he
>> didn't know of the
>> religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty clothes
>> were enough for him to get up and keep standing
>> for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for a
>> 'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we
>> ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that
>> face
>> the earth now are reasons enough that we
>> start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by
>> shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy
>> inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess that
>> we have ourselves created on this earth.
>>
>> I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity.
>>
>> The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this religious
>> intolerance is : Tolerance!
>> That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of fascism
>> or
>> nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting
>> the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the very
>> root of strife in the first place.
>>
>> And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But  a time comes when
>> we
>> have to call a spade a spade.
>> We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just
>> visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in front
>> of
>> each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why are
>> they afraid to see each other directly.
>> Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to
>> ones
>> brother standing just a meter away.
>>
>> I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter
>> depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where
>> people
>> believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we
>> need neo-believers who are foolish enough to
>> believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a
>> long revolution but a possible one.
>>
>> But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my case:
>> I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And
>> every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the
>> chants
>> of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though i
>> don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather the
>> supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the business
>> of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded
>> into
>> my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i would
>> have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert at
>> all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools run
>> by one religion or the other the better.
>>
>> Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough to
>> believe in this long long revolution.
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