[Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan

[A.K. Malik]

Hi Murali,
           I have had lot of discussion with Rakesh on minority appeasement.We both have failed to convince each other while still agreeing on views on several of the issues.I entirely agree with views expressed in your last para.While most instances narrated by Rakesh are state centred politics, strangely the major minority appeasement is from Central Govt. I have been thinking of reasons why it is so happening and have come to a plausible viewpoint.
There are two major political parties-BJP and Congress.There are many  people  mainly from majority community committed to BJP ideology which the Congress is unable to woo and break.While there are others who strongly oppose this ideology and naturally drift to Congress.Congress is thus left with a choice either to woo a small floating left out  majority community number or put its efforts on major chunk of minority community. The results are obvious with open wooing of minorities mainly Muslims. In so far as political parties are concerned this could still be acceptable.But when it comes to Governance, why should citizens be discriminated based on religion. The Governments should treat all equally except as provided in Constitution.This is not happening so as we see in our daily lives.
In my opinion the BJP has certainly behaved better in this regard than the Congress as far as Central Governance is concerned.
I know there would be people who would not brand this as secular but let all those put their hands on their hearts and tell  who seems to be safer--a Muslim living in Hindu majority place or a Hindu living in a Muslim majority place.There are no saviours for Hindus while there are hundreds of saviours for Muslims.  The results of discriminations is now resulting into Hindu fanaticsm which is equally dangerous as has been the other way round.When you look at numbers where are you going to equalize the percentages-Govt, Industry,Markets,Shops,Residences,Roads, Places of worship and so on and so forth.If the Govt wishes let them make ALL citizens more educated and more capable and then market forces will determine their course.
Regards,
 
(A.K.MALIK)


--- On Wed, 8/5/09, Murali V <murali.chalam at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Murali V <murali.chalam at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan
> To: "Rakesh Iyer" <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 10:48 PM
> Regarding Babri Masjid.
> Here is a reference on ASI findings before it was abruptly
> asked to abandon,
> for fear of excavating the obvious.
> "Findings of Ayodhya digging
> 
> Summary of the main findings may be stated as follows:
> There is 'archeological evidence of a massive structure'
> below ground where
> the Babri mosque was destroyed in 1992.
> The structure bears distinctive features associated with
> ancient temples of
> northern India.
> There is evidence of building work there from as far as the
> 10th century.
> 
> 
> The excavated area covered beneath the disputed land at
> least 14,000 sq.ft
> over which the report said, 'There is sufficient proof of
> existence of a
> massive and monumental structure having a minimum dimension
> of 50x30 meters
> in the north-south and east-west directions, respectively,
> just below the
> disputed structure.' The report said that excavation
> clearly showed
> distinctive features of a tenth century temple below the
> ruins of the Babri
> Mosque. It further mentions discovery of 50 pillar bases,
> decorated bricks
> bearing features of 10th century, deities of Hindu gods and
> goddesses, lotus
> motifs, and curved architectural pieces. "
> Re: Godhra carnage.
> UC Bannerjee commision initiated by the congress on the
> Godhra Tran fire,
> was manipulated to generate the report of electric Short
> circuit. The reason
> is to protect the Congress men who were involved.
> "Was it secular to see chaurches destroyed"
> We made the mistake of watching Temples destroyed.
> Kandhamal
> Our central ministry did not have the guts do anything to
> the maoists even
> after the acceptance, but instead made statments on the
> aftermath of the
> Sawami's killing.
> On all of your questions, I have absolutely no
> disagreement, if all act in a
> truly secular manner. But the situation is otherwise. This
> so called
> secularism the brainchild of Nehru has been and will be
> minority appeasement
> and pseudo-secularism.
> Regards,
> V Murali
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Dear Murali Ji
> >
> > I give you a reverse account of what you have said,
> and ironically, this is
> > exactly in the vein you have sent the mail to me. May
> be this may make you
> > understand what I wish to say actually.
> >
> > These are also facts you should know:
> >
> > 1) The Babri Masjid was said to have been constructed
> on a spot which was
> > said to be the birth place of Lord Ram. Without any
> historical verification
> > of the place, or of any temple having been constructed
> on the spot, a call
> > was given by the Sangh Parivar and a Yatra was
> launched from Somnath to
> > Ayodhya under the leadership of Lal Krishna Advani, to
> ask for the Ram
> > Mandir to be constructed. Wherever the movement went,
> there were riots.
> > Gujarat, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh etc. And further
> more, once he was
> > arrested by Lalu govt. in Bihar, there were more
> incidents of rioting,
> > arson, looting and rape across India.
> >
> > The entire thing culminated in the second worst
> communal set of incidents
> > across the country, particularly in Mumbai, of
> independent India, the first
> > unarguably being the riots at the time of Partition.
> What was worse was that
> > in many of the cases, unlike say the Partition, the
> incidents were planned,
> > meticulously, and selectively Muslims and Hindus were
> burnt and butchered
> > with arsonists having even voting lists and having
> marked homes of the
> > 'enemy' communities. Was that secular?
> >
> > 2) The Shiv Sena gave a call based on an incident
> which took place at
> > Radhabai Chawl in Jogeshwari, which was the burning of
> a few Hindus, to
> > teach 'Muslims' a lesson to his party activists. The
> Shiv Sena activists
> > then went on a killing spree, to follow the dictum of
> the party chief. The
> > entire set of incidents is quoted properly in the
> Srikrishna Commission
> > report, constituted to investigate the various
> incidents in 92-93 riots. The
> > commission indicted Shiv Sena chief to have been a
> major figure responsible
> > for deterioration of law and order in the city and the
> reason for crimes
> > being committed. Till date, the Commission
> investigation has not helped the
> > victims to get justice. And Thackeray openly
> challenged the police to arrest
> > him.
> >
> > Is that secular?
> >
> > What's more, based on these incidents, Tiger Memon and
> his boss Dawood
> > Ibrahim decided to take 'revenge' for what happened to
> 'their brothers and
> > sisters' during these riots, by organizing 1993
> blasts, which resulted in
> > death of many innocents. Is that secular?
> >
> > Then again, at least this case was investigated and
> sentences were finally
> > read out about 16 years later. What about the riots
> though? Will they ever
> > be investigated? If not now, say in the next 1,000
> years?
> >
> > 3) Then we come to 2002. The Gujarat govt first didn't
> do anything
> > worthwhile at all to stop Godhra. The Railway
> Minister, Nitish Kumar,
> > refused to order any inquiry into the incident at
> Godhra which led to
> > burning of 58 people at the station. What's more, the
> incident was used to
> > justify the carnage, rapes, mutilation, looting and
> killing (a massacre and
> > genocide in a sense) of Muslims to 'teach' them a
> lesson.
> >
> > And the CM of Gujarat, Narendra Modi, led the example
> by openly stating
> > Newton's third law as the reason for the riots. What's
> more, it took 72
> > hours for the Army to be deployed in Gujarat, when the
> Army could have been
> > called much earlier. Three days, the rioters had a
> field day. The biggest
> > irony is that when the Defence Minister George
> Fernandes was in Gujarat to
> > take a stock of the situation, there was news of his
> vehicle being stoned as
> > well! If the Defence Minister's vehicle is not safe,
> what security was the
> > Modi govt giving to people, may I know?
> >
> > Was that secular?
> >
> > What is more, those who organized these riots were
> seen moving around with
> > voter lists or municipal lists stating addresses of
> people. Newspapers like
> > Sandesh and Gujarat Samachar were giving exaggerating
> reports daily one
> > after another of one or the other temple being
> destroyed, when there were
> > none in the first place. Editorials were published on
> a regular basis trying
> > to justify the violence as the reaction to Godhra.
> >
> > Modi asked whether Manmohan was providing chicken
> biryani to those
> > terrorists who were hiding in Charar-e-Sharif in the
> 1990's. Was Modi also
> > enjoying dal-bati and Gujarati vegetarian cuisine
> specially ordered from
> > hotels while the murderers and looters had a field
> day, with the police
> > doing nothing at all, and sometimes even helping them
> in a few places? Or
> > was he also getting supply of some of these women to
> enjoy himself? And what
> > was his Health Minister doing being in the Control
> Rooms to monitor the
> > situation during riots? And if he couldn't control his
> police, what is the
> > use of his 56-ki-chaati?
> >
> > He doesn't even have the guts without security guards
> around him. Where was
> > his masculine virtues then, when women were dragged
> out in front of their
> > husbands and raped?
> >
> > Instead, Modi later went on a Gaurav Rath Yatra to
> prove that Gujarat had
> > not lost its honour by allowing all this. Was that
> secular?
> >
> > Forget being secular, is that even justifiable?
> >
> > Were we dreaming when all this news came in? Some
> Gujaratis then said that
> > Muslims are lying. Is the death of more than 1,000
> people a lie? Are all
> > these 'secularists' or those who state such things
> 'liars'? And only Godhra
> > is the truth?
> >
> > Tell me this.
> >
> > 4) Karnataka. The Sangh Parivar wanted to teach
> Christians a lesson for
> > 'proselytization'. Considering that it was their govt.
> (the BJP govt) in
> > Karnataka, couldnt' they have registered a police case
> for conversions under
> > 'fraud, force or allurement' against the respective
> organizations? And what
> > about protection of minorities?
> >
> > Was it secular to see churches destroyed? Has the BJP
> decided to function
> > in India under an alternative constitution to the one
> of India, namely the
> > Sangh Parivar Constitution?
> >
> > 5) Orissa. Kandhamal. The Swami was killed by the
> Maoists who even accepted
> > it, but the RSS and the hoodlums didn't have the balls
> to touch the Maoists,
> > othewise they wouldn't even have been seen in this
> world later. Instead,
> > they went on a killing spree to destroy Churches and
> kill tribals who had
> > been Christians. This way they brought about mass
> exodus of people, gave a
> > communal tinge to the election campaign (the accused
> in Kandhamal riots was
> > the BJP candidate for the Assembly) and also forced
> many converted tribals
> > to 'reconvert'.
> >
> > Do they even know themselves what it is to be a Hindu,
> forget being
> > secular? Do they know what Hinduism stands for? And
> who gave them the right
> > to decide whether the tribals are Hindus or not?
> >
> > 6) Every year, the BJP and its sister organizations
> force people indoors on
> > the Valentine's Day, in the name of protecting Indian
> culture. Who made BJP
> > the vanguard of the Indian culture? (or even the
> sister organizations for
> > that matter) Has the BJP patented the Indian culture
> to have some IPR
> > (intellectual property rights) over it? And do they
> have the licence to
> > decide Indian culture?
> >
> > If I also become a CM and allow criminals to do to BJP
> activists what they
> > have done to the rest of the nation, would that be
> acceptable or not? I want
> > an answer to this question as well. State yes or no
> for this question.
> >
> > Is all this secular? Tell me that?
> >
> > I can put more questions here, as many as you would
> want. And if you think
> > the Congress is communal, I have no issues with that.
> But I have a larger
> > fundamental issue, and that is clear. Nobody has the
> right to take law in
> > their own hands. And nobody has a right to restrict
> freedoms of others.
> >
> > And the BJP and the Sangh Parivar indulge in that, day
> in and day out. It's
> > much better to have a UPA govt. any day, which can be
> criticized for so many
> > scams and incidents and should be certainly punished
> for them (at least they
> > respond to public pressure and do bring some good acts
> like the NREGA and
> > may be the Right to Food will also come in), rather
> than the NDA, whose
> > philosophy was development only for the sake of
> economic growth, and always
> > minorities felt insecure (and of course, they had
> their share of scams as
> > well). Even today, there are more incidents of
> communal violence on daily
> > basis in states where BJP rules, compared to those
> where they don't rule.
> >
> > Can anybody answer that?
> >
> > Anyways, your problem as I said is that it's only
> religio-political matters
> > which are important for you people. You always feel as
> if you are the
> > victim. Hindus are the victim according to you people.
> You thrive on being
> > victimized. And that's even strange when you yourself
> haven't experienced
> > anything which should make you feel like a victim. And
> seriously, the only
> > thing you are doing is to play politics with this
> victimization, rather than
> > understanding the context in which those statements
> are made, or even trying
> > to forget the past and move forward and do something
> which can help the
> > people.
> >
> > Congratulations to the Sangh Parivar for having played
> politics with our
> > minds and having decided us on this forum and
> elsewhere as well. And for the
> > Hindutva believers, please start being rational and
> question your beliefs.
> > Golwalkar must be having great time wherever he is.
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Rakesh
> >
> >
> >
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