[Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion?

Yousuf ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
Sun Jan 25 10:36:32 IST 2009 

Dear Rahul
I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to be killed while Pakistan is "treated". But there is always a long term and short term strategy required. I as a citizen don't have the resources to get involved in the short term and "surgical" treatment (which some may call war). I can only think of my involvement in the long-term and slow healing process which is the people-to-people contact. If the people who are preaching terror against the so-called kafirs (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real opportunity to meet such people and sit down and talk, they may realize that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change their approach. This is the only way situations are controlled in every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree everyone needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi survey was a reflection of just a few hundred people in a population of lakhs. 

Yousuf


--- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion?
> To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>, "Peace Initiative" <peace_initiative at yahoogroups.com>, ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
> Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, edit at hindustantimes.com
> Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM
> Dear Yousuf,
> 
> "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an equal number
> of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be eradicated
> from the face of the earth."
> I agree.
> "But my point is, is a long-term solution to terror
> possible
> by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its govt."
> I agree again about the first part.I am not advocating
> war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt should not be
> blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD flourish and
> carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip flops on
> the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other statements related
> to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere they are in
> curbing LET-the so called non-state actors flourishing with
> the support of the establishment.
> "If someone is sick, do you try to treat that person,
> or do you  kill him so that his disease doesn't afflict
> you. That's the choice we have to make."
> Thats what I asked you in the earlier mail.Contrary to
> anything that I can see,lets assume that the person does
> want to be "treated".How do you plan to
> "treat that person"? Are you ready to accept the
> inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians while the
> "treatment" is going on?
> I do not have any reason to believe that majority of
> Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As I have
> written earlier,even if that were the case,that would not
> solve anything till Pak establishment keeps supporting
> LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds.
> In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in the way
> that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see what it has
> done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for the money
> it receives from the US.It will never completely eradicate
> Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor people in
> NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand and
> Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other hand,while all
> the time the Pak army is receiving more funds from the US.
> Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of
> propagating international terrorism will not end unless and
> until there is an existential threat to the army.Its just
> too profitable a business for them.
> I will reiterate,I am not batting for the warmongers.But
> the peaceniks should at least frame the debate
> realistically.Just ignoring the realities and insisting on
> friendship would not stop terror attacks and push us closer
> towards war.
> 
> Regards
> Rahul
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation
> an illusion?
> > To: "sarai list"
> <reader-list at sarai.net>, "Peace Initiative"
> <peace_initiative at yahoogroups.com>,
> rahul_capri at yahoo.com
> > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com, edit at hindustantimes.com
> > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM
> > Dear Rahul
> > The result of the survey you mentioned must be true -
> I
> > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a survey in
> India,
> > an equal number of people will say Islam and Muslims
> need to
> > be eradicated from the face of the earth. Same result
> may
> > come up in America or elsewhere. People are not born
> with
> > those answers for the surveys - they are brainwashed. 
> > 
> > One of the delegates that arrived from Pakistan early
> this
> > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher, but he
> won't
> > have become a terrorist if there was a school in his
> > village". I think that says a lot about the
> situation
> > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate this because
> for us
> > they are an enemy - "to hell with them if they
> > don't have schools in their village". 
> > 
> > But my point is, is a long-term solution to terror
> possible
> > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its govt. Was
> the
> > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda by
> crushing
> > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the situation become
> worse
> > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural complexities
> of our
> > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were interviewed
> in the
> > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu. The only
> image
> > that their education system has given them of India is
> that
> > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will only
> strengthen
> > that image for them (and for us about them). But I
> agree
> > that just a people-to-people contact is not the only
> > effective solution - but it can probably help in
> improving
> > the results of those surveys in each other's
> favour. If
> > someone is sick, do you try to treat that person, or
> do you
> > kill him so that his disease doesn't afflict you.
> > That's the choice we have to make.
> > 
> > Yousuf
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana
> > <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and
> reconciliation
> > an illusion?
> > > To: "sarai list"
> > <reader-list at sarai.net>, "Peace
> Initiative"
> > <peace_initiative at yahoogroups.com>,
> ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
> > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,
> > editor at hindustantimes.com
> > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13 PM
> > > Dear Yousuf,
> > > Have you come across this survey published in a
> > Pakistani
> > > newspaper?
> > >
> >
> http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/
> > > "Fifteen percent of participants in the
> > Karachi-based
> > > study supported suicide bombing and said that
> Islam
> > and
> > > other religions supported it."
> > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all those
> surveyed
> > in
> > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing was
> acceptable
> > in
> > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon."
> > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the most
> > cosmopolitan of
> > > all Pak cities.
> > > You probably know Pakistan better than me,so can
> you
> > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption that there
> is
> > > probably no other place in Pakistan that can be
> > expected to
> > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the questions
> > polled.
> > > Do you think this is a significant difference?
> How do
> > you
> > > plan to bridge this divide? 
> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > > Rahul
> > > 
> > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf
> <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace and
> > reconciliation an
> > > illusion?
> > > > To: "sarai list"
> > > <reader-list at sarai.net>, "Peace
> > Initiative"
> > > <peace_initiative at yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,
> > > editor at hindustantimes.com
> > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:25 PM
> > > > Here is a letter I wrote in response to an
> HT
> > article
> > > > (copied at bottom):
> > > > -----
> > > > 
> > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha
> > > > Reading the war-cry in your write-up I am
> > wondering if
> > > this
> > > > is the same country which produced Gandhi,
> Kabir,
> > > Buddha and
> > > > such non-violent people. While you find the
> job
> > of the
> > > > “peaceniks” futile and a waste of time,
> I
> > found
> > > your
> > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a large
> number
> > of
> > > people on
> > > > both sides of the border are fed up with
> terror
> > and
> > > violence
> > > > and are anxious for a workable solution. But
> much
> > of
> > > your
> > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic attack on
> such
> > > people who
> > > > try to channelize their angst into
> productive and
> > > positive
> > > > use. You doubt the very intentions of the
> people
> > who
> > > > genuinely want peace. If you are proposing
> that
> > all
> > > efforts
> > > > of peace and reconciliation and the
> > people-to-people
> > > contact
> > > > between India and Pakistan be shut and
> replaced
> > simply
> > > by a
> > > > cold “co-existence”, how exactly do you
> > define
> > > this
> > > > co-existence? Aren’t we co-existing right
> now?
> > How
> > > can a
> > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence? 
> > > > 
> > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab parties
> between
> > Indian
> > > and
> > > > Pakistani activists do not serve any
> purpose, but
> > I
> > > found
> > > > your statement that there are actually no
> > > commonalities
> > > > between the culture of India and Pakistan
> rather
> > > juvenile.
> > > > If India and Pakistan should be hostile to
> each
> > other
> > > > because they are culturally dissimilar, then
> we
> > should
> > > have
> > > > a million more partitions within India due
> to our
> > > cultural
> > > > differences.
> > > > 
> > > > I think the efforts of peace activists of
> the two
> > > countries
> > > > have remained less effective so far because
> their
> > > reach has
> > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or Lahore
> only.
> > If
> > > they
> > > > reached smaller and remote places such as
> > Gorakhpur,
> > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad, and meet
> the
> > > ordinary
> > > > people, they’ll probably be able to
> understand
> > each
> > > other
> > > > better and realize that not everyone in
> these
> > > countries
> > > > wants war. When you say that there is “an
> > > irreparable
> > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge it are
> both
> > > unrealistic
> > > > and impossible”, I think the divide has
> been
> > created
> > > by
> > > > the governments and writers like you. The
> > ordinary
> > > people of
> > > > the two countries are the only ones who can
> > bridge
> > > this
> > > > divide, if you stop writing such nonsense.
> > > > 
> > > > Yousuf Saeed
> > > > New Delhi
> > > > 
> > > > (on behalf of many friends in India and
> Pakistan
> > who
> > > will
> > > > continue to strive for peace, dialogue and
> > > reconciliation)
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -----
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > We’re not all in it together
> > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times
> > > > January 22, 2009
> > > > 
> > > > With tension between India and Pakistan
> > escalating,
> > > the
> > > > self-appointed ambassadors of peace have
> their
> > hands
> > > full.
> > > > Irrespective of the inappropriateness of
> > marketing
> > > peace at
> > > > a time when India has yet to come to terms
> with
> > 26/11,
> > > > peaceniks on both sides are overactive. Last
> week
> > a
> > > > Pakistani delegation landed in Amritsar with
> a
> > banner
> > > of
> > > > friendship; another is invading Delhi to
> talk
> > peace.
> > > Worse
> > > > still, their Indian counterparts held
> meetings to
> > > ensure
> > > > that their peace mission was a roaring
> success,
> > apart
> > > from
> > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian soil.
> > > > 
> > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan or they us,
> they
> > are
> > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both make
> endless
> > > comparisons
> > > > and list commonalities in food, dress,
> language,
> > > culture and
> > > > of course history. Politically correct, but
> > untrue
> > > because
> > > > there are distinct differences  in the
> respective
> > > cuisines,
> > > > languages, festivals, customs, rituals and
> > religion.
> > > What
> > > > are common are the scars of Partition and a
> > > blood-stained
> > > > divide: facts which peaceniks pretend do not
> > exist as
> > > they
> > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs, while
> pining for
> > a
> > > no-visa
> > > > regime. It’s all very well to savour
> kebabs and
> > > hosting
> > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the surface and
> there
> > is
> > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have little chance
> of
> > > healing.
> > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and positions
> > harden.
> > > Then it
> > > > is ‘you versus us’ rather than ‘you
> and
> > us’.
> > > > 
> > > > So even while President Asif Ali Zardari
> tried to
> > > charm
> > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying that
> there is
> > a
> > > little
> > > > bit of India in every Pakistani and vice
> versa,
> > the
> > > truth is
> > > > that there is no love lost between the two.
> It is
> > rare
> > > to
> > > > find an Indian warming up to a Pakistani.
> However
> > hard
> > > we
> > > > may try, we cannot wish away the mutual
> suspicion
> > > sealed by
> > > > history. There is an irreparable divide and
> > attempts
> > > to
> > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and
> impossible.
> > > Marching to
> > > > the Wagah border to light candles for peace
> is at
> > best
> > > a
> > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible results.
> In
> > other
> > > words, a
> > > > waste of time. Consequently when an enraged
> > Pranab
> > > > Mukherjee, India’s Foreign Minister, sheds
> > diplomacy
> > > and
> > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted.
> > > > 
> > > > This being the ground reality, it is time to
> shed
> > > > superficial bonhomie and get real, and
> abandon
> > the
> > > song and
> > > > dance about friendship. We need to be
> brutally
> > honest
> > > and
> > > > change tack from a focus on peace to
> > co-existence. It
> > > is
> > > > compulsions of geography and not bonds of
> history
> > that
> > > force
> > > > us to live side by side. Replacing peace
> with
> > > co-existence
> > > > will also help end the “like-mindedness”
> > theory
> > > and
> > > > reveal common meeting points in place of
> > non-workable
> > > > alliances. It will end pretensions about
> > camaraderie
> > > and
> > > > help us face reality: however hard, bitter
> and
> > brutal
> > > it may
> > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it will be
> much
> > easier
> > > to
> > > > tackle the inherent acrimony bordering on
> > aggression.
> > > > 
> > > > Erase the friendship logo and there could be
> a
> > road
> > > ahead;
> > > > abandon the thought of jointly treading the
> path
> > and
> > > > solutions could be on the anvil. But break
> bread
> > > together
> > > > and it is a non- starter because despite the
> > kebabs
> > > and
> > > > candles, terror attacks and a volatile
> Indo-Pak
> > border
> > > are
> > > > the order of the day.
> > > > 
> > > > The only casualty here would be the
> peaceniks.
> > Not
> > > only
> > > > will they be out of work but will be
> unwilling to
> > > accept
> > > > that what they have been marketing all these
> > years is
> > > an
> > > > illusion.
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > > > _________________________________________
> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on
> media and
> > the
> > > city.
> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > To subscribe: send an email to
> > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe
> in
> > the
> > > subject
> > > > header.
> > > > To unsubscribe:
> > > >
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list 
> > > > List archive:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>

More information about the reader-list mailing list