[Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims?

prabhat kumar prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com
Mon Jan 26 17:43:37 IST 2009 

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:59 AM, <reader-list-request at sarai.net> wrote:

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> Dear Prashant,

Sorry for delayed reply. My net was not working.  I think Anand has already
written quite clearly what I meant by my short posting.. My comment was not
intended to irritate anyone.
Cheers!

Prabhat

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: (Imagi)nation without the Muslims? (Prashant Kadam)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:59:45 -0500
> From: Prashant Kadam <explore at prashant.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] (Imagi)nation without the Muslims?
> To: prabhat kumar <prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com>
> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> Message-ID: <73DB5741-6132-4CA9-AAAC-9CEDF9B7E39F at prashant.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=WINDOWS-1252;   format=flowed;
>        delsp=yes
>
> And if one goes by your logic, Muslims are not subalterns?
>
> Prashant
>
> On 25-Jan-09, at 12:32 PM, prabhat kumar wrote:
>
> > If one goes by the inernal logic of the critique, this article by
> > Prasant imaginatively points out the caste and gender exclusion but
> > fails to perceive the conspicuous absence/exclusion of the Muslims
> > in this nationalist song of Bharat Kumar!
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM, <reader-list-request at sarai.net>
> > wrote:
> > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to
> >        reader-list at sarai.net
> >
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> >        https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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> >        reader-list-request at sarai.net
> >
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> >        reader-list-owner at sarai.net
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Mere desh ki dharti... (Navayana Publishing)
> >   2. Re: Is peace and reconciliation an illusion? (Yousuf)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:10:04 +0530
> > From: Navayana Publishing <navayana at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [Reader-list] Mere desh ki dharti...
> > To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Message-ID:
> >        <a0190a0a0901250240s1d5da4fi22684f5942c34bce at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> >
> > http://www.hindu.com/mag/2009/01/25/stories/2009012550020200.htm
> >
> > (Imagi)nation without the subaltern
> >
> > PRASHANT KADAM
> >
> > This Republic Day the iconic song, Mere Desh ki Dharti, will be
> > heard yet
> > again. But take a look at the unbalanced choice of icons the song
> > celebrates
> > and the sweeping erasures it nonchalantly effects.
> >
> > Mere Desh ki Dharti, an extremely popular patriotic song from the film
> > "Upkaar" (1967), is played on television, radio and at street
> > corners to
> > celebrate Republic Day every year. We will hear it yet again this
> > January
> > 26. In this song, one sees Bharat, the son of the soil played by
> > Manoj Kumar
> > (also the director of the film), praise the bounteous earth, its
> > natural
> > resources and its leaders.
> >
> > The third and last stanza goes: ye baag hain gautam naanak kaa,
> > khilate hain
> > aman ke phool yahaan/gaandhee, subhaash, taigore, tilak ayese hain
> > chaman ke
> > phool yahaan/rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain laal
> > bahaadoor
> > se/rang banaa basantee bhagatasing rang aman kaa veer jawaahar se
> > (In these
> > gardens of Buddha and Nanak, flowers of peace prosper/Gandhi, Subhash,
> > Tagore, Tilak – such are the flowers that blossom here/Colour green
> > stands
> > for Hari Singh Nalava, and red for Lal Bahadur/Colour saffron is
> > drawn from
> > Bhagat Singh, and white from brave Jawaharlal.)
> >
> > Although the entire song needs close attention at various levels, I
> > shall
> > focus only this verse and the elisions it smoothly makes. A few
> > facts have
> > to be taken into consideration before engaging with the discourse of
> > the
> > song. First, the filmmaker Manoj Kumar (born Harikishan Giri Goswami
> > in
> > Abbottabad in Northwest Frontier Province) has Partition and
> > displacement in
> > his family history and is a 'high-caste' Hindu. The lyric writer,
> > Gulshan
> > Kumar Mehta, popularly known as Gulshan Bawra, shares a similar
> > background.
> > The playback singer Mahendra Kapoor was a Punjabi from Amritsar. The
> > point
> > in mentioning their regional identities is to suggest that while
> > envisioning
> > the 'nation' and its political leaders, the filmmaker and his team
> > were
> > selective: all males, mostly from Central and North India.
> >
> > New colour
> >
> > While the song begins by fleetingly mentioning the Buddha, it
> > superimposes
> > the images of Mohandas Gandhi and Subhas Chandra Bose on the Buddha.
> > Ironically, Tilak, an 'extremist' nationalist leader, a Brahmin who
> > openly
> > criticised Gandhi's views on non-violence and peaceful negotiations,
> > also
> > finds a place in the same breath. What is surprising though is the
> > invoking
> > of the colour red: rang haraa hari singh nalawe se, rang laal hain
> > laal
> > bahaadoor se… (the colour green represents Hari Singh Nalava,a
> > relatively
> > unknown Punjabi), the colour red (laal) stands for Lal Bahadur
> > Shastri).
> > Nowhere on the flag of India does one see the colour red. The
> > mention of Lal
> > Bahadur Shastri, India's third prime minister, owes to the fact that
> > "Upkaar" was made in 1967, and Shastri died in 1966. His inclusion
> > perhaps
> > could be justified but who is Hari Singh Nalava and how has he been
> > slipped
> > in here?
> >
> > The song seeks to associate the key colours of the Indian tricolour
> > with
> > "nationalist/political" leaders. But the invocation of the non-
> > existent red
> > is, in a sense, yet another misrepresentation. While the song
> > systematically
> > associates each of the colours — green, red, orange and white — with
> > certain
> > leaders and their spirit, what is rendered invisible is the dark blue
> > coloured Dhamma Chakra right at the centre of the tricolour. Not
> > only does
> > the song ambiguously undermine its symbolic colour blue but also the
> > 24 arcs
> > of the wheel of Buddhist dhamma (not Hindu dharma) and its central
> > place in
> > the flag. Although the song does mention the Buddha in passing, when
> > it
> > comes to symbolically associating and emphasising upon the Dhamma
> > Chakra's
> > significance, it suffers from selective amnesia. Of a piece with this
> > exclusionist logic, among all the 'national' leaders mentioned, Dr.
> > B.R.
> > Ambedkar's name and image are conspicuous by their absence. The man
> > who
> > framed the Indian Constitution gets excluded whereas a virtually
> > unknown
> > Hari Nalava marks his 'green' presence, thanks to a poor pun on his
> > name.
> >
> > Ample liberties
> >
> > Dr. Ambedkar's role in ensuring a place for the Dhamma Chakra in the
> > flag
> > effectively resisted the effort to pass off the flag of the Indian
> > National
> > Congress as the newly formed Republic's flag. Crucially, it has to be
> > understood that the colour blue and the Dhamma Chakra adopted from the
> > Ashoka Pillar in Sarnath, are not representative of communal or
> > regional
> > identities. The 24 spokes in the wheel represent 24 virtues such as
> > love,
> > courage, patience, empathy and humility. However, the "Upkaar" song
> > takes
> > ample liberties in associating the national flag with an unbalanced
> > choice
> > of political leaders, and in a sense communalises the flag.
> >
> > Another major absence in this song of 'nationalism' is the absence
> > of women
> > leaders. Even the 'usual suspects' are absent. This absence is
> > symbolic and
> > itself points to the patriarchal nature and ideology of the song and
> > its
> > creators. Although I do understand that the token representation of
> > images
> > of 'women leaders' along with male political leaders may have limited
> > influence on the conditions of and on womenfolk in India, the
> > inaudibility
> > and invisibility of women among the 'valorised' leaders in Mere Desh
> > ki
> > Dharti is yet another symptom of brahminical patriarchal bias.
> >
> > As we remember the formation of the Indian Republic this year, we
> > must hear
> > and see this iconic song critically and be alive to its ambiguous
> > erasures.
> >
> > The writer is pursuing his Masters in Cinema and Media studies at York
> > University, Toronto. Email: explore at prashant.ca
> >
> > www.navayana.org
> >
> > Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts!
> > http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:42:39 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion?
> > To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>, rahul_capri at yahoo.com
> > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com
> > Message-ID: <749241.4681.qm at web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > If people-contact is a feel-good exercise, then even war is, for us.
> > Because both will achieve nothing. Yes Pak govt. is to be held
> > responsible for all ills, the same way as we say our roads are bad
> > because of the govt., the garbage is piling up on the street because
> > of the government, and so on. We are trying to find simple solutions
> > for complex problems. Any way, I am not a spokesperson of the Pak or
> > Indian govt. but I would prefer reconciliation rather than more
> > violence.
> >
> > Yousuf
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation an illusion?
> > > To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>, ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
> > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com
> > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 12:03 PM
> > > Dear Yousuf,
> > > I would argue that people to people contact is just a feel
> > > good exercise.Till Pak govt is not made to give up its
> > > policy of cross border terrorism,people to people contact
> > > would achieve diddly squat.National narratives can be
> > > managed and are being managed.Anyway,if you do realize that
> > > other means are necessary then we have sufficient agreement.
> > > Now coming to Taha's post.I had decided earlier that
> > > interacting with him is a waste of bandwidth and
> > > everybody's time.Last time he wanted to be educated
> > > about Pakistan.This time he wants an education in statistics
> > > and sampling.Everybody should try to educate themselves
> > > first.Hand holding should not be encouraged.Anyway, please
> > > go through this link.
> > > http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/20obama-survey-india.htm
> > > "As many as 17,356 adult citizens across 17 countries
> > > were interviewed in this survey conducted for the BBC World
> > > service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together
> > > with the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the
> > > University of Maryland."
> > > I think even Taha can do the math.
> > > Yousof, now that I have responded to Taha's query for a
> > > precedent on your request,will you please take any further
> > > statistics and sampling related questions on my behalf?
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > > Rahul
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and reconciliation
> > > an illusion?
> > > > To: "sarai list"
> > > <reader-list at sarai.net>, rahul_capri at yahoo.com
> > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com
> > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:36 AM
> > > > Dear Rahul
> > > > I agree that we certainly cannot allow more Indians to
> > > be
> > > > killed while Pakistan is "treated". But
> > > there is
> > > > always a long term and short term strategy required. I
> > > as a
> > > > citizen don't have the resources to get involved
> > > in the
> > > > short term and "surgical" treatment (which
> > > some
> > > > may call war). I can only think of my involvement in
> > > the
> > > > long-term and slow healing process which is the
> > > > people-to-people contact. If the people who are
> > > preaching
> > > > terror against the so-called kafirs
> > > > (India/Hindu/America/Israel etc.) get a real
> > > opportunity to
> > > > meet such people and sit down and talk, they may
> > > realize
> > > > that not everyone is evil, they'll probably change
> > > their
> > > > approach. This is the only way situations are
> > > controlled in
> > > > every war and violent confrontations. Yes I agree
> > > everyone
> > > > needs to get realistic, including you. You haven't
> > > > responded to Taha's findings that the Karachi
> > > survey was
> > > > a reflection of just a few hundred people in a
> > > population of
> > > > lakhs.
> > > >
> > > > Yousuf
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Rahul Asthana
> > > > <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and
> > > reconciliation
> > > > an illusion?
> > > > > To: "sarai list"
> > > > <reader-list at sarai.net>, "Peace
> > > Initiative"
> > > > <peace_initiative at yahoogroups.com>,
> > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
> > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,
> > > edit at hindustantimes.com
> > > > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 3:10 AM
> > > > > Dear Yousuf,
> > > > >
> > > > > "I am sure if we do a survey in India, an
> > > equal
> > > > number
> > > > > of people will say Islam and Muslims need to be
> > > > eradicated
> > > > > from the face of the earth."
> > > > > I agree.
> > > > > "But my point is, is a long-term solution to
> > > > terror
> > > > > possible
> > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its
> > > > govt."
> > > > > I agree again about the first part.I am not
> > > advocating
> > > > > war.But I fail to see why the Pakistan govt
> > > should not
> > > > be
> > > > > blamed when it is continues to let LET-JUD
> > > flourish
> > > > and
> > > > > carry out terror attacks on India.Its recent flip
> > > > flops on
> > > > > the issue of Ajmal Kasab and many other
> > > statements
> > > > related
> > > > > to the Mumbai blasts may tell you how sincere
> > > they are
> > > > in
> > > > > curbing LET-the so called non-state actors
> > > flourishing
> > > > with
> > > > > the support of the establishment.
> > > > > "If someone is sick, do you try to treat
> > > that
> > > > person,
> > > > > or do you  kill him so that his disease
> > > doesn't
> > > > afflict
> > > > > you. That's the choice we have to make."
> > > > > Thats what I asked you in the earlier
> > > mail.Contrary to
> > > > > anything that I can see,lets assume that the
> > > person
> > > > does
> > > > > want to be "treated".How do you plan to
> > > > > "treat that person"? Are you ready to
> > > accept
> > > > the
> > > > > inevitable terror attacks and more dead Indians
> > > while
> > > > the
> > > > > "treatment" is going on?
> > > > > I do not have any reason to believe that majority
> > > of
> > > > > Pakistanis are similar to majority of Indians.As
> > > I
> > > > have
> > > > > written earlier,even if that were the case,that
> > > would
> > > > not
> > > > > solve anything till Pak establishment keeps
> > > supporting
> > > > > LET-JUD and LET-JUD has access to funds.
> > > > > In my humble opinion, Pak army uses the state in
> > > the
> > > > way
> > > > > that it pleases,for its own benefits.You can see
> > > what
> > > > it has
> > > > > done to the people in NWFP and Swat in return for
> > > the
> > > > money
> > > > > it receives from the US.It will never completely
> > > > eradicate
> > > > > Taliban because that's its cash cow.The poor
> > > > people in
> > > > > NWFP and swat are facing US bombings on one hand
> > > and
> > > > > Talibans version of brutal Islam on the other
> > > > hand,while all
> > > > > the time the Pak army is receiving more funds
> > > from the
> > > > US.
> > > > > Again, in my humble opinion, the Pak policies of
> > > > > propagating international terrorism will not end
> > > > unless and
> > > > > until there is an existential threat to the
> > > army.Its
> > > > just
> > > > > too profitable a business for them.
> > > > > I will reiterate,I am not batting for the
> > > > warmongers.But
> > > > > the peaceniks should at least frame the debate
> > > > > realistically.Just ignoring the realities and
> > > > insisting on
> > > > > friendship would not stop terror attacks and push
> > > us
> > > > closer
> > > > > towards war.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Rahul
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Yousuf
> > > <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and
> > > > reconciliation
> > > > > an illusion?
> > > > > > To: "sarai list"
> > > > > <reader-list at sarai.net>, "Peace
> > > > Initiative"
> > > > > <peace_initiative at yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com
> > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,
> > > > edit at hindustantimes.com
> > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 8:06 PM
> > > > > > Dear Rahul
> > > > > > The result of the survey you mentioned must
> > > be
> > > > true -
> > > > > I
> > > > > > will not contest that. I am sure if we do a
> > > > survey in
> > > > > India,
> > > > > > an equal number of people will say Islam and
> > > > Muslims
> > > > > need to
> > > > > > be eradicated from the face of the earth.
> > > Same
> > > > result
> > > > > may
> > > > > > come up in America or elsewhere. People are
> > > not
> > > > born
> > > > > with
> > > > > > those answers for the surveys - they are
> > > > brainwashed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One of the delegates that arrived from
> > > Pakistan
> > > > early
> > > > > this
> > > > > > week said, "Kasab is really a butcher,
> > > but
> > > > he
> > > > > won't
> > > > > > have become a terrorist if there was a
> > > school in
> > > > his
> > > > > > village". I think that says a lot about
> > > the
> > > > > situation
> > > > > > in Pakistan. But we would not appreciate
> > > this
> > > > because
> > > > > for us
> > > > > > they are an enemy - "to hell with them
> > > if
> > > > they
> > > > > > don't have schools in their
> > > village".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But my point is, is a long-term solution to
> > > > terror
> > > > > possible
> > > > > > by simply attacking Pakistan or blaming its
> > > govt.
> > > > Was
> > > > > the
> > > > > > might of America able to eradicate Al-Qaeda
> > > by
> > > > > crushing
> > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq? Hasn't the
> > > situation
> > > > become
> > > > > worse
> > > > > > now? Can we overlook the socio-cultural
> > > > complexities
> > > > > of our
> > > > > > region. Maybe the Karachi folks that were
> > > > interviewed
> > > > > in the
> > > > > > survey have never met an Indian or a Hindu.
> > > The
> > > > only
> > > > > image
> > > > > > that their education system has given them
> > > of
> > > > India is
> > > > > that
> > > > > > of an enemy. A violent confrontation will
> > > only
> > > > > strengthen
> > > > > > that image for them (and for us about them).
> > > But
> > > > I
> > > > > agree
> > > > > > that just a people-to-people contact is not
> > > the
> > > > only
> > > > > > effective solution - but it can probably
> > > help in
> > > > > improving
> > > > > > the results of those surveys in each
> > > other's
> > > > > favour. If
> > > > > > someone is sick, do you try to treat that
> > > person,
> > > > or
> > > > > do you
> > > > > > kill him so that his disease doesn't
> > > afflict
> > > > you.
> > > > > > That's the choice we have to make.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yousuf
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Rahul Asthana
> > > > > > <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana
> > > > <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is peace and
> > > > > reconciliation
> > > > > > an illusion?
> > > > > > > To: "sarai list"
> > > > > > <reader-list at sarai.net>, "Peace
> > > > > Initiative"
> > > > > > <peace_initiative at yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > ysaeed7 at yahoo.com
> > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,
> > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com
> > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:13
> > > PM
> > > > > > > Dear Yousuf,
> > > > > > > Have you come across this survey
> > > published
> > > > in a
> > > > > > Pakistani
> > > > > > > newspaper?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://karachi.metblogs.com/2008/08/28/15-in-karachi-back-suicide-bombers-study/
> > > > > > > "Fifteen percent of participants
> > > in the
> > > > > > Karachi-based
> > > > > > > study supported suicide bombing and
> > > said
> > > > that
> > > > > Islam
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > other religions supported it."
> > > > > > > "However, nearly 50 percent of all
> > > > those
> > > > > surveyed
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > Karachi believed that suicide bombing
> > > was
> > > > > acceptable
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > Palestine, Kashmir and Lebanon."
> > > > > > > Mind you, this is Karachi,probably the
> > > most
> > > > > > cosmopolitan of
> > > > > > > all Pak cities.
> > > > > > > You probably know Pakistan better than
> > > me,so
> > > > can
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > comment if I am wrong in my assumption
> > > that
> > > > there
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > probably no other place in Pakistan
> > > that can
> > > > be
> > > > > > expected to
> > > > > > > have lower numbers than Karachi in the
> > > > questions
> > > > > > polled.
> > > > > > > Do you think this is a significant
> > > > difference?
> > > > > How do
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > plan to bridge this divide?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > Rahul
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Yousuf
> > > > > <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: Yousuf
> > > <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Is peace
> > > and
> > > > > > reconciliation an
> > > > > > > illusion?
> > > > > > > > To: "sarai list"
> > > > > > > <reader-list at sarai.net>,
> > > "Peace
> > > > > > Initiative"
> > > > > > >
> > > <peace_initiative at yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > Cc: kumkum at hindustantimes.com,
> > > > > > > editor at hindustantimes.com
> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009,
> > > 3:25 PM
> > > > > > > > Here is a letter I wrote in
> > > response to
> > > > an
> > > > > HT
> > > > > > article
> > > > > > > > (copied at bottom):
> > > > > > > > -----
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dear Kumkum Chadha
> > > > > > > > Reading the war-cry in your
> > > write-up I
> > > > am
> > > > > > wondering if
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > is the same country which produced
> > > > Gandhi,
> > > > > Kabir,
> > > > > > > Buddha and
> > > > > > > > such non-violent people. While you
> > > find
> > > > the
> > > > > job
> > > > > > of the
> > > > > > > > "peaceniks" futile and a waste
> > > of
> > > > time,
> > > > > I
> > > > > > found
> > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > write-up a bit confusing. Today, a
> > > > large
> > > > > number
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > people on
> > > > > > > > both sides of the border are fed
> > > up
> > > > with
> > > > > terror
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > violence
> > > > > > > > and are anxious for a workable
> > > > solution. But
> > > > > much
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > essay is an extremely pessimistic
> > > > attack on
> > > > > such
> > > > > > > people who
> > > > > > > > try to channelize their angst into
> > > > > productive and
> > > > > > > positive
> > > > > > > > use. You doubt the very intentions
> > > of
> > > > the
> > > > > people
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > genuinely want peace. If you are
> > > > proposing
> > > > > that
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > > efforts
> > > > > > > > of peace and reconciliation and
> > > the
> > > > > > people-to-people
> > > > > > > contact
> > > > > > > > between India and Pakistan be shut
> > > and
> > > > > replaced
> > > > > > simply
> > > > > > > by a
> > > > > > > > cold "co-existence", how
> > > exactly do
> > > > you
> > > > > > define
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > co-existence? Aren't we
> > > co-existing
> > > > right
> > > > > now?
> > > > > > How
> > > > > > > can a
> > > > > > > > bonhomie harm this co-existence?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree that the page-3 kebab
> > > parties
> > > > > between
> > > > > > Indian
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > Pakistani activists do not serve
> > > any
> > > > > purpose, but
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > found
> > > > > > > > your statement that there are
> > > actually
> > > > no
> > > > > > > commonalities
> > > > > > > > between the culture of India and
> > > > Pakistan
> > > > > rather
> > > > > > > juvenile.
> > > > > > > > If India and Pakistan should be
> > > hostile
> > > > to
> > > > > each
> > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > because they are culturally
> > > dissimilar,
> > > > then
> > > > > we
> > > > > > should
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > a million more partitions within
> > > India
> > > > due
> > > > > to our
> > > > > > > cultural
> > > > > > > > differences.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think the efforts of peace
> > > activists
> > > > of
> > > > > the two
> > > > > > > countries
> > > > > > > > have remained less effective so
> > > far
> > > > because
> > > > > their
> > > > > > > reach has
> > > > > > > > been limited to Delhi, Amritsar or
> > > > Lahore
> > > > > only.
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > reached smaller and remote places
> > > such
> > > > as
> > > > > > Gorakhpur,
> > > > > > > > Piparia, Abbotabad and Faisalabad,
> > > and
> > > > meet
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > ordinary
> > > > > > > > people, they'll probably be able
> > > to
> > > > > understand
> > > > > > each
> > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > better and realize that not
> > > everyone in
> > > > > these
> > > > > > > countries
> > > > > > > > wants war. When you say that there
> > > is
> > > > "an
> > > > > > > irreparable
> > > > > > > > divide, and the attempts to bridge
> > > it
> > > > are
> > > > > both
> > > > > > > unrealistic
> > > > > > > > and impossible", I think the
> > > divide
> > > > has
> > > > > been
> > > > > > created
> > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > the governments and writers like
> > > you.
> > > > The
> > > > > > ordinary
> > > > > > > people of
> > > > > > > > the two countries are the only
> > > ones who
> > > > can
> > > > > > bridge
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > divide, if you stop writing such
> > > > nonsense.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yousuf Saeed
> > > > > > > > New Delhi
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (on behalf of many friends in
> > > India and
> > > > > Pakistan
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > continue to strive for peace,
> > > dialogue
> > > > and
> > > > > > > reconciliation)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We're not all in it together
> > > > > > > > Kumkum Chadha, Hindustan Times
> > > > > > > > January 22, 2009
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > With tension between India and
> > > Pakistan
> > > > > > escalating,
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > self-appointed ambassadors of
> > > peace
> > > > have
> > > > > their
> > > > > > hands
> > > > > > > full.
> > > > > > > > Irrespective of the
> > > inappropriateness
> > > > of
> > > > > > marketing
> > > > > > > peace at
> > > > > > > > a time when India has yet to come
> > > to
> > > > terms
> > > > > with
> > > > > > 26/11,
> > > > > > > > peaceniks on both sides are
> > > overactive.
> > > > Last
> > > > > week
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > Pakistani delegation landed in
> > > Amritsar
> > > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > banner
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > friendship; another is invading
> > > Delhi
> > > > to
> > > > > talk
> > > > > > peace.
> > > > > > > Worse
> > > > > > > > still, their Indian counterparts
> > > held
> > > > > meetings to
> > > > > > > ensure
> > > > > > > > that their peace mission was a
> > > roaring
> > > > > success,
> > > > > > apart
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > warmly welcoming them on Indian
> > > soil.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Each time Indians visit Pakistan
> > > or
> > > > they us,
> > > > > they
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > visibly gushing with emotion. Both
> > > make
> > > > > endless
> > > > > > > comparisons
> > > > > > > > and list commonalities in food,
> > > dress,
> > > > > language,
> > > > > > > culture and
> > > > > > > > of course history. Politically
> > > correct,
> > > > but
> > > > > > untrue
> > > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > there are distinct differences  in
> > > the
> > > > > respective
> > > > > > > cuisines,
> > > > > > > > languages, festivals, customs,
> > > rituals
> > > > and
> > > > > > religion.
> > > > > > > What
> > > > > > > > are common are the scars of
> > > Partition
> > > > and a
> > > > > > > blood-stained
> > > > > > > > divide: facts which peaceniks
> > > pretend
> > > > do not
> > > > > > exist as
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > exchange garlands and bear hugs,
> > > while
> > > > > pining for
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > no-visa
> > > > > > > > regime. It's all very well to
> > > savour
> > > > > kebabs and
> > > > > > > hosting
> > > > > > > > lavish dinners. But scratch the
> > > surface
> > > > and
> > > > > there
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > acrimony: raw wounds that have
> > > little
> > > > chance
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > healing.
> > > > > > > > Mention Kashmir or terrorism and
> > > > positions
> > > > > > harden.
> > > > > > > Then it
> > > > > > > > is 'you versus us' rather than
> > > > 'you
> > > > > and
> > > > > > us'.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So even while President Asif Ali
> > > > Zardari
> > > > > tried to
> > > > > > > charm
> > > > > > > > Indians at the HT summit by saying
> > > that
> > > > > there is
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > little
> > > > > > > > bit of India in every Pakistani
> > > and
> > > > vice
> > > > > versa,
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > truth is
> > > > > > > > that there is no love lost between
> > > the
> > > > two.
> > > > > It is
> > > > > > rare
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > find an Indian warming up to a
> > > > Pakistani.
> > > > > However
> > > > > > hard
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > may try, we cannot wish away the
> > > mutual
> > > > > suspicion
> > > > > > > sealed by
> > > > > > > > history. There is an irreparable
> > > divide
> > > > and
> > > > > > attempts
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > bridge it are both unrealistic and
> > > > > impossible.
> > > > > > > Marching to
> > > > > > > > the Wagah border to light candles
> > > for
> > > > peace
> > > > > is at
> > > > > > best
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > goodwill gesture with no tangible
> > > > results.
> > > > > In
> > > > > > other
> > > > > > > words, a
> > > > > > > > waste of time. Consequently when
> > > an
> > > > enraged
> > > > > > Pranab
> > > > > > > > Mukherjee, India's Foreign
> > > Minister,
> > > > sheds
> > > > > > diplomacy
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > cries war, he cannot be faulted.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This being the ground reality, it
> > > is
> > > > time to
> > > > > shed
> > > > > > > > superficial bonhomie and get real,
> > > and
> > > > > abandon
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > song and
> > > > > > > > dance about friendship. We need to
> > > be
> > > > > brutally
> > > > > > honest
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > change tack from a focus on peace
> > > to
> > > > > > co-existence. It
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > compulsions of geography and not
> > > bonds
> > > > of
> > > > > history
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > force
> > > > > > > > us to live side by side. Replacing
> > > > peace
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > co-existence
> > > > > > > > will also help end the
> > > > "like-mindedness"
> > > > > > theory
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > reveal common meeting points in
> > > place
> > > > of
> > > > > > non-workable
> > > > > > > > alliances. It will end pretensions
> > > > about
> > > > > > camaraderie
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > help us face reality: however
> > > hard,
> > > > bitter
> > > > > and
> > > > > > brutal
> > > > > > > it may
> > > > > > > > be. Once minds are re-scripted, it
> > > will
> > > > be
> > > > > much
> > > > > > easier
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > tackle the inherent acrimony
> > > bordering
> > > > on
> > > > > > aggression.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Erase the friendship logo and
> > > there
> > > > could be
> > > > > a
> > > > > > road
> > > > > > > ahead;
> > > > > > > > abandon the thought of jointly
> > > treading
> > > > the
> > > > > path
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > solutions could be on the anvil.
> > > But
> > > > break
> > > > > bread
> > > > > > > together
> > > > > > > > and it is a non- starter because
> > > > despite the
> > > > > > kebabs
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > candles, terror attacks and a
> > > volatile
> > > > > Indo-Pak
> > > > > > border
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > the order of the day.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The only casualty here would be
> > > the
> > > > > peaceniks.
> > > > > > Not
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > will they be out of work but will
> > > be
> > > > > unwilling to
> > > > > > > accept
> > > > > > > > that what they have been marketing
> > > all
> > > > these
> > > > > > years is
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > illusion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=9e445e0d-ecff-4fe5-a9fe-79b28e821def
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > _________________________________________
> > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion
> > > list on
> > > > > media and
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > city.
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
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> >
> > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 93
> > *******************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Prabhat Kumar
> > Ph.D. Student,
> > Department of History,
> > South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg,
> > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330,
> > 69120 Heidelberg, Germany.
> > Mobile: 00 49 17685050077
> > FAX: 00 49 06221 546381.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
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> End of reader-list Digest, Vol 66, Issue 98
> *******************************************
>



-- 
Prabhat Kumar
Ph.D. Student,
Department of History,
South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg,
Im Neuenheimer Feld 330,
69120 Heidelberg, Germany.
Mobile: 00 49 17685050077
FAX: 00 49 06221 546381.

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