[Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure...

Inder Salim indersalim at gmail.com
Fri Jul 10 19:36:47 IST 2009 

Dear All

I sometimes dont believe in ' facts' which is my 'artistic choice' and
one of them is the fact that majority of Indians dont agree to recent
HC verdict which downplayed the contents of Article 377 regarding
Homosexuality.  I dont care about such a mojority, if it shallowly and
violently opposes the freedom to exprience alternative sexuality in
our society

We are made to beleive that the Mojority of Indians ( Hindus, Sikhs,
Christian and Muslims )  are against the High Court Order '
decriminalizing' Homosexulaity, which is a far cry from  legalizing
it. I have rarely seen these religous leaders(mukhotas)  taking a
collective stand against communal violnece, or any other kind of
violence, but for this 'union' between 'same sex' has united them. It
only speakes about their private behaviours. It amuses me to no end
when i hear them saying that ' homosexuality can be cured, it is a
disease'. when is reverse is true.

I personally  want to see ' legalizing of same sex marrainges'
happening during my life time. I want to live in a world that
guarantees freedom to every and each individual to expeirnce love on
their own terms.

People deserve to free themselves from the obselete chains of Laws.. I
dont know about chauvinistic Males, but Females are always the direct
beneficiaries of changes, as and when they occur, in any form, in any
sector.

The debate can be intensified in a very civilzed manner, and for that
i found a lucid piece of text

http://www.cla.purdue.edu/academic/engl/theory/genderandsex/modules/butlergendersex.html

the followin para is from the above article

Indeed, Butler goes far as to argue that gender, as an objective
natural thing, does not exist: "Gender reality is performative which
means, quite simply, that it is real only to the extent that it is
performed" ("Performative" 278). Gender, according to Butler, is by no
means tied to material bodily facts but is solely and completely a
social construction, a fiction, one that, therefore, is open to change
and contestation: "Because there is neither an 'essence' that gender
expresses or externalizes nor an objective ideal to which gender
aspires; because gender is not a fact, the various acts of gender
creates the idea of gender, and without those acts, there would be no
gender at all. Gender is, thus, a construction that regularly conceals
its genesis" ("Performative" 273). That genesis is not corporeal but
performative (see next module), so that the body becomes its gender
only "through a series of acts which are renewed, revised, and
consolidated through time" ("Performative" 274). By illustrating the
artificial, conventional, and historical nature of gender
construction, Butler attempts to critique the assumptions of normative
heterosexuality: those punitive rules (social, familial, and legal)
that force us to conform to hegemonic, heterosexual standards for
identity.



with love
inder salim






On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 5:15 PM, anupam chakravartty<c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:
> homosexuality has existed in the indian society from time immemorial. there
> is a whole monument dedicated to homosexuality in Dahod district of gujarat
> that dates back to 12 century AD. the argument that the homosexuality is
> unnatural occurs when one sees it from the perspective of Victorian mores
> being applied to indian society that happened in late 18th and 19th century.
> people like baba ramdev continue to do so.
>
> On 7/10/09, vaid theite <dnyan21 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hallo,
>>
>> You are diverting the main concern of this email. Dont you think so? The
>> main point is that how to argue with Baba kind of person irrespective of how
>> popular he is as this has gone a legal case. Baba has vocalised expression
>> of many, I think. When one says that homosexuality is not natural. Then,
>> question is how to pose an argument against it? One needs to prove,
>> scientifically and reasonably, that it is natural. Traditionally, it has
>> been approved that that physical relation between two different sexes is
>> natural.
>>
>> D
>>
>> --- On Fri, 7/10/09, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > From: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure...
>> > To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 4:24 AM
>> > Dear Aditya,
>> >
>> > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable.
>> > Second, this
>> > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and
>> > his followers
>> > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread
>> > with television.
>> > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people
>> > being cured by that
>> > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are
>> > helping out
>> > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike
>> > Ramdev eating on air
>> > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people
>> > in tribal areas
>> > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because
>> > the villagers
>> > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines
>> > have to be
>> > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge
>> > of indian
>> > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of
>> > middle class Hindu
>> > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests
>> > itself like a
>> > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of
>> > american
>> > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend.
>> >
>> > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june
>> > 2009 from Hindu
>> > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves
>> > it even more
>> > (says a latest TOI report) .
>> >
>> > -with warmest regards
>> > anupam
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Dear Anupam
>> > >
>> > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be
>> > one soon some day.
>> > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure
>> > Baba Ramdev hasn't
>> > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it
>> > yourself. Spreading
>> > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of
>> > you. It qualifies
>> > > you
>> > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have
>> > proved your
>> > > disability
>> > > openly on sarai today.
>> > >
>> > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has
>> > lakhs of followers
>> > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any
>> > harm. You may continue to
>> > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I
>> > know for sure how rich
>> > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its
>> > all game of money.
>> > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them..
>> > isn't it ?
>> > >
>> > > Love
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty
>> > <c.anupam at gmail.com
>> > > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Dear Aditya,
>> > > >
>> > > > Looks like you have not heard about the
>> > perversion of Yogis. I think you
>> > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis
>> > start with three wives,
>> > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate
>> > objects. this was
>> > > described
>> > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and
>> > the perverse habits. i
>> > > am
>> > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly
>> > ask your whacko baba,
>> > > which
>> > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell
>> > you all about it with
>> > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced
>> > with a guru who has
>> > > reached
>> > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all
>> > aspirations. your ideas of
>> > > > yoga
>> > > > being a desi marketable product which is being
>> > done by this ramdev and
>> > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have
>> > about larger indian
>> > > society.
>> > > >
>> > > > -regards
>> > > > anupam
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just
>> > another Baba, Maulvi or a
>> > > > > father.
>> > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One
>> > shouldn't shut their eyes to this
>> > > > > fact.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on
>> > legalization, most of the common
>> > > people
>> > > > > have consensus on decriminalization.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May
>> > Baba Ramdev bless you.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It
>> > doesn't only help Hindus. It
>> > > > helps
>> > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Cheers
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite
>> > <dnyan21 at yahoo.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to
>> > 'convince' people like Baba who
>> > > say
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be
>> > posit an argument saying
>> > > > homosexuality
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > > natural?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate
>> > history of sexual relations in
>> > > > > > anthropology, I think.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be
>> > 're-articulation'?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Dnyan
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw:
>> > Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a
>> > > cure...
>> > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" <sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in>
>> > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai."
>> > <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46
>> > AM
>> > > > > > > Since people have raised the
>> > question
>> > > > > > > of homosexuality not being
>> > natural, I
>> > > > > > > would also like to know what is
>> > this 'natural'. In their
>> > > > > > > evolution, human
>> > > > > > > beings must have killed animals,
>> > and now continue to do so
>> > > > > > > (though mostly in
>> > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that
>> > natural, or not?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Women would have not been
>> > subjected to marriage in very
>> > > > > > > early history of
>> > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now
>> > they do marry. Is that
>> > > > > > > natural?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > There must have been a time when
>> > it must have been decided
>> > > > > > > that women have
>> > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At
>> > that moment of time,
>> > > > > > > would that have been
>> > > > > > > natural?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one
>> > can't be sure whether
>> > > > > > > something is natural
>> > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is
>> > change. Change has to take
>> > > > > > > place with time,
>> > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for
>> > homosexuality being
>> > > > > > > natural or not, if the
>> > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion'
>> > have content on it and
>> > > > > > > these scriptures
>> > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by
>> > your definition, they
>> > > > > > > can't be considered
>> > > > > > > 'natural'.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The correct statement should be
>> > that homosexuals are in a
>> > > > > > > minority in India,
>> > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream
>> > practiced custom in India. That
>> > > > > > > is certainly
>> > > > > > > true as of now.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Regards
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Rakesh
>> > > > > > >
>> > _________________________________________
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>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > _________________________________________
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>> > > > >
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul
>> > > > > _________________________________________
>> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on
>> > media and the city.
>> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations
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>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Aditya Raj Kaul
>> > > _________________________________________
>> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the
>> > city.
>> > > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
>> > with
>> > > subscribe in the subject header.
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>> > _________________________________________
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>> > city.
>> > Critiques & Collaborations
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>>
>>
>>
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