[Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure...

Fri Jul 10 19:44:07 IST 2009

Religious leaders should not have any kind of say in any of the functioning
of a democratic society, because God never contests in any of the elections.
(Is anybody saying that religious leaders have nothing to do with God)

Thank you Anupam

On 7/10/09, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear All
>
> I sometimes dont believe in ' facts' which is my 'artistic choice' and
> one of them is the fact that majority of Indians dont agree to recent
> HC verdict which downplayed the contents of Article 377 regarding
> Homosexuality.  I dont care about such a mojority, if it shallowly and
> violently opposes the freedom to exprience alternative sexuality in
> our society
>
> We are made to beleive that the Mojority of Indians ( Hindus, Sikhs,
> Christian and Muslims )  are against the High Court Order '
> decriminalizing' Homosexulaity, which is a far cry from  legalizing
> it. I have rarely seen these religous leaders(mukhotas)  taking a
> collective stand against communal violnece, or any other kind of
> violence, but for this 'union' between 'same sex' has united them. It
> only speakes about their private behaviours. It amuses me to no end
> when i hear them saying that ' homosexuality can be cured, it is a
> disease'. when is reverse is true.
>
> I personally  want to see ' legalizing of same sex marrainges'
> happening during my life time. I want to live in a world that
> guarantees freedom to every and each individual to expeirnce love on
> their own terms.
>
> People deserve to free themselves from the obselete chains of Laws.. I
> dont know about chauvinistic Males, but Females are always the direct
> beneficiaries of changes, as and when they occur, in any form, in any
> sector.
>
> The debate can be intensified in a very civilzed manner, and for that
> i found a lucid piece of text
>
>
> http://www.cla.purdue.edu/academic/engl/theory/genderandsex/modules/butlergendersex.html
>
> the followin para is from the above article
>
> Indeed, Butler goes far as to argue that gender, as an objective
> natural thing, does not exist: "Gender reality is performative which
> means, quite simply, that it is real only to the extent that it is
> performed" ("Performative" 278). Gender, according to Butler, is by no
> means tied to material bodily facts but is solely and completely a
> social construction, a fiction, one that, therefore, is open to change
> and contestation: "Because there is neither an 'essence' that gender
> expresses or externalizes nor an objective ideal to which gender
> aspires; because gender is not a fact, the various acts of gender
> creates the idea of gender, and without those acts, there would be no
> gender at all. Gender is, thus, a construction that regularly conceals
> its genesis" ("Performative" 273). That genesis is not corporeal but
> performative (see next module), so that the body becomes its gender
> only "through a series of acts which are renewed, revised, and
> consolidated through time" ("Performative" 274). By illustrating the
> artificial, conventional, and historical nature of gender
> construction, Butler attempts to critique the assumptions of normative
> heterosexuality: those punitive rules (social, familial, and legal)
> that force us to conform to hegemonic, heterosexual standards for
> identity.
>
>
>
> with love
> inder salim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 5:15 PM, anupam chakravartty<c.anupam at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > homosexuality has existed in the indian society from time immemorial.
> there
> > is a whole monument dedicated to homosexuality in Dahod district of
> gujarat
> > that dates back to 12 century AD. the argument that the homosexuality is
> > unnatural occurs when one sees it from the perspective of Victorian mores
> > being applied to indian society that happened in late 18th and 19th
> century.
> > people like baba ramdev continue to do so.
> >
> > On 7/10/09, vaid theite <dnyan21 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hallo,
> >>
> >> You are diverting the main concern of this email. Dont you think so? The
> >> main point is that how to argue with Baba kind of person irrespective of
> how
> >> popular he is as this has gone a legal case. Baba has vocalised
> expression
> >> of many, I think. When one says that homosexuality is not natural. Then,
> >> question is how to pose an argument against it? One needs to prove,
> >> scientifically and reasonably, that it is natural. Traditionally, it has
> >> been approved that that physical relation between two different sexes is
> >> natural.
> >>
> >> D
> >>
> >> --- On Fri, 7/10/09, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > From: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure...
> >> > To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >> > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 4:24 AM
> >> > Dear Aditya,
> >> >
> >> > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable.
> >> > Second, this
> >> > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and
> >> > his followers
> >> > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread
> >> > with television.
> >> > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people
> >> > being cured by that
> >> > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are
> >> > helping out
> >> > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike
> >> > Ramdev eating on air
> >> > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people
> >> > in tribal areas
> >> > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because
> >> > the villagers
> >> > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines
> >> > have to be
> >> > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge
> >> > of indian
> >> > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of
> >> > middle class Hindu
> >> > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests
> >> > itself like a
> >> > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of
> >> > american
> >> > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend.
> >> >
> >> > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june
> >> > 2009 from Hindu
> >> > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves
> >> > it even more
> >> > (says a latest TOI report) .
> >> >
> >> > -with warmest regards
> >> > anupam
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Dear Anupam
> >> > >
> >> > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be
> >> > one soon some day.
> >> > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure
> >> > Baba Ramdev hasn't
> >> > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it
> >> > yourself. Spreading
> >> > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of
> >> > you. It qualifies
> >> > > you
> >> > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have
> >> > proved your
> >> > > disability
> >> > > openly on sarai today.
> >> > >
> >> > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has
> >> > lakhs of followers
> >> > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any
> >> > harm. You may continue to
> >> > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I
> >> > know for sure how rich
> >> > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its
> >> > all game of money.
> >> > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them..
> >> > isn't it ?
> >> > >
> >> > > Love
> >> > >
> >> > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty
> >> > <c.anupam at gmail.com
> >> > > >wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Dear Aditya,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Looks like you have not heard about the
> >> > perversion of Yogis. I think you
> >> > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis
> >> > start with three wives,
> >> > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate
> >> > objects. this was
> >> > > described
> >> > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and
> >> > the perverse habits. i
> >> > > am
> >> > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly
> >> > ask your whacko baba,
> >> > > which
> >> > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell
> >> > you all about it with
> >> > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced
> >> > with a guru who has
> >> > > reached
> >> > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all
> >> > aspirations. your ideas of
> >> > > > yoga
> >> > > > being a desi marketable product which is being
> >> > done by this ramdev and
> >> > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have
> >> > about larger indian
> >> > > society.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -regards
> >> > > > anupam
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just
> >> > another Baba, Maulvi or a
> >> > > > > father.
> >> > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One
> >> > shouldn't shut their eyes to this
> >> > > > > fact.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on
> >> > legalization, most of the common
> >> > > people
> >> > > > > have consensus on decriminalization.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May
> >> > Baba Ramdev bless you.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It
> >> > doesn't only help Hindus. It
> >> > > > helps
> >> > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Cheers
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite
> >> > <dnyan21 at yahoo.com>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to
> >> > 'convince' people like Baba who
> >> > > say
> >> > > > > that
> >> > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be
> >> > posit an argument saying
> >> > > > homosexuality
> >> > > > > is
> >> > > > > > natural?
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate
> >> > history of sexual relations in
> >> > > > > > anthropology, I think.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be
> >> > 're-articulation'?
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Dnyan
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw:
> >> > Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a
> >> > > cure...
> >> > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" <sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in>
> >> > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai."
> >> > <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >> > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46
> >> > AM
> >> > > > > > > Since people have raised the
> >> > question
> >> > > > > > > of homosexuality not being
> >> > natural, I
> >> > > > > > > would also like to know what is
> >> > this 'natural'. In their
> >> > > > > > > evolution, human
> >> > > > > > > beings must have killed animals,
> >> > and now continue to do so
> >> > > > > > > (though mostly in
> >> > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that
> >> > natural, or not?
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Women would have not been
> >> > subjected to marriage in very
> >> > > > > > > early history of
> >> > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now
> >> > they do marry. Is that
> >> > > > > > > natural?
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > There must have been a time when
> >> > it must have been decided
> >> > > > > > > that women have
> >> > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At
> >> > that moment of time,
> >> > > > > > > would that have been
> >> > > > > > > natural?
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one
> >> > can't be sure whether
> >> > > > > > > something is natural
> >> > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is
> >> > change. Change has to take
> >> > > > > > > place with time,
> >> > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for
> >> > homosexuality being
> >> > > > > > > natural or not, if the
> >> > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion'
> >> > have content on it and
> >> > > > > > > these scriptures
> >> > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by
> >> > your definition, they
> >> > > > > > > can't be considered
> >> > > > > > > 'natural'.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > The correct statement should be
> >> > that homosexuals are in a
> >> > > > > > > minority in India,
> >> > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream
> >> > practiced custom in India. That
> >> > > > > > > is certainly
> >> > > > > > > true as of now.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Regards
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Rakesh
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > _________________________________________
> >> > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion
> >> > list on media and the
> >> > > > > > > city.
> >> > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations
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> >> > header.
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> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > _________________________________________
> >> > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on
> >> > media and the city.
> >> > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations
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> >> > with
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> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > --
> >> > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul
> >> > > > > _________________________________________
> >> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on
> >> > media and the city.
> >> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
> >> > with
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> >> > > > _________________________________________
> >> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and
> >> > the city.
> >> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
> >> > with
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> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Aditya Raj Kaul
> >> > > _________________________________________
> >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the
> >> > city.
> >> > > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
> >> > with
> >> > > subscribe in the subject header.
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> >> > _________________________________________
> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the
> >> > city.
> >> > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
> >> > with subscribe in the subject header.
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _________________________________________
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