[Reader-list] The "Sickular" History

Thu Jun 4 19:39:38 IST 2009

Did people vote for 'secularism' or 'sickularism' ?

Arent the both same in India ...

pawan

On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Venugopalan K M <kmvenuannur at gmail.com>wrote:

> Dear Kshmendra,
> Thanks for your comments.
> Whether the word be associated with the root 'sick' or 'sickle',
> 'sickular' continues to be sickening to me. This, I attribute to the
> permanently negative connotations the word most often catch. A desire
> to belong to a genuinely secular polity, whatever be our personal
> religious conviction is what better corresponds to secularism in my
> view.  Sickular, as far as  I can understand, is often used by many
> (including the Muslim victims of discriminative state policies)  only
> to undervalue the real worthiness of secularism whatever is existing,
> and to distract.
> After the recent massive popular verdict in the last general elections
> in favour of secularism, I wish we could go back to examine the sort
> of distortions the idea of secularism suffered in recent times. If we
> mean to use the word sickular just to describe all kinds of abuses of
> secularism, I am afraid it would not go beyond abusing the abusers; it
> seldom cares to build ideal models of praxis in a multi-religious
> country. We often put blame on the Left and the Congress alike, for
> not being sufficiently secular in practice; but that itself is no
> justification for finding a vague expression for venting our ire on
> people who don't really take care of our desire to live in a secular
> polity.
> Regards,
> Venu.
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Dear Venugopalan
> >
> > A few comments, a few digressions.
> >
> > - As things stand, it would be foolish for the 'sickle' to be associated
> > with 'communism' in India, for if the "Left" are 'communists' they have
> > almost totally ignored those who wield the "sickle" in India. In that
> > perhaps is some clue for the stagnation and/or decline of the political
> > presence of the "Left" in India.
> >
> > - But, you have given an interesting spin on the "SICK" in "sickular"
> being
> > linked to "SICKle". You have added a dimension to the word though I did
> not
> > (in my brief research) see that exclusive connection being highlighted.
> >
> > - My 'falling in love with" the word "sickular" comes from my fascination
> > with roots of words and how words gain currency (and the altering
> that takes
> > place in their recognised meanings through time).
> >
> > - As I said earlier, I do not use the word "sickular" and I stated the
> > reasons why not. But I will not ignore the powerful statement the word
> > "sickular" makes and it's significance in symbolising the attitudinal and
> > (in some ways) ideological divides in India.
> >
> > - You seemed to have missed out on a reference I gave about the word
> > "sickular" being used by Muslims too.
> >
> > - I would suggest that attempts be made to understand the reasons why
> people
> > use the word "sickular" rather than shutting ones eyes with the
> > dismissal that it is "used by people with deeply convoluted, distorted
> and
> > parochial biases against secularism"
> >
> > - The word "pseudo-secular" (I am told by Wikipedia) has first recorded
> > usage by Padre Anthony Elenjimittam in his 1951 book "  Philosophy and
> > Action of the R. S. S. for the Hind Swaraj". It appears that he used it
> > against the Congress.
> >
> > - There is much to be said in favour of the need for some forms of
> (limited)
> > employment of "positive discrimination" or "affirmative action" in India.
> > But beyond that, one often sees attitudes of "convoluted secularism";
> > "hypocritical secularism"; "selective secularism". For those I find the
> word
> > "pseudo-secular" applies itself aptly
> >
> > - Dont you think that when BJP professes that it is a "secular" party
> that
> > it is "pseudo-secularism"?
> >
> > The more we put others in compartments in our mind, the more our own
> > mind gets confined to a closed compartment.
> >
> > Kshmendra
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 6/4/09, Venugopalan K M <kmvenuannur at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Venugopalan K M <kmvenuannur at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The "Sickular" History
> > To: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 11:41 AM
> >
> > When used by people with deeply convoluted, distorted and parochial
> > biases against secularism , the usage sickular is sickening indeed. At
> > least some seem to have the image of sickle (comprising the
> > traditional symbol of communism) in their mind while they use
> > sickularism with extreme derogation. Take for example the
> > coinage"pseudo secularism", the credit of which goes to the Hidutwa
> > brigade of the 1990s under the stewardship of LKA.  It is far from
> > truth to suggest that  they would have appreciated 'real' secularism
> > in the place of the allegedly 'pseudo' secularism.
> > You take pseudo secularism to be a point of reference not to ask for
> > the real one,but just to whip up passions and hate and ultimately to
> > proceed to your cherished Ramrajya,where the Constitution of India
> > would be thrown to dust bin by the irate Hindu mobs and Sadhoos and
> > Shankaracharis would take over as law givers (Manu would be reinstated
> > as the unchallengeable authority of law)
> >
> > I have yet to come across a serious usage of the term 'sickular',
> > notwithstanding my benign curiosity  toward Ksmendra's and Inder
> > Salim's love for this coinage.
> > With my deepest regards to Kshmendra and Inder,
> > Venu.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:56 PM, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Dear Kshmendra
> >>
> >> SECULAR has lot to do with profane than with sacred, lucidly.
> >> So it is not surprising that contemporary dirty politics invents the
> >> word Sickluar.
> >>
> >> in many senses than one WE ALL ARE SICKLUAR PEOPLE , and that is not a
> >> bad category, given that fact that we can bring about a change in the
> >> society...... there is a possibility, but  those who think they are
> >> believers ought to study their practices, and analyze deeply how their
> >> beliefs are sustained by this Sickluar mass. If not down to earth
> >> believer, which is so rare, a believer is unwittingly a practising
> >> Sickular,  So better to be a known as Sickular, consciously....
> >>
> >> thanks for kissing the word SICKULAR on the cheek, i too am kissing
> >> the other side of it.
> >>
> >> love
> >> is
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>> My burst of "love" for the word "slacktivism" that I got introduced to
> >>> today reminded me about another word which I immediately fell in love
> with
> >>> on first seeing it. The word is "sickular".
> >>>
> >>> I have personally never used the word "sickular" even though in it
> >>> resonates and it encompasses my own evaluations of some attitudes one
> sees
> >>> in India. I have preffered terms like "convoluted secularism";
> "hypocritical
> >>> secularism"; "selective secularism".
> >>>
> >>> "Sickular" is a powerful word but it is too dismissive for my liking
> for
> >>> it often brings to a sudden end any reasoned discussion that could
> explore
> >>> opposing viewpoints on interpretaions of "secularism".
> >>>
> >>> But, "Sickular" is a significant word for it symbolises the attitudinal
> >>> and to some extent the ideological divides that exist in India.
> >>>
> >>> What are the origins of this word "Sickular"? I could not find it in
> any
> >>> dictionary, nor was Wikipedia of any help. If someone knows, please let
> me
> >>> know.
> >>>
> >>> "Sickular" apppears to be an India-coined word.
> >>>
> >>> - The earliest usage of the word "sickular" that I could locate  from
> Web
> >>> sources is a 2004 comment by "Anonymous" on the site "Snap Judgement"
>  which
> >>> has content pre-dominantly in Tamil:
> >>>
> >>> "When our so called sickular media were shy on even touching this gory
> >>> murder, you did a splendid job of bringing out the truth."
> >>>
> >>>
> http://snapjudge.com/2004/11/05/%E0%AE%A8%E0%AF%86%E0%AE%A4%E0%AE%B0%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%B2%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%A8%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%A4%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%A9%E0%AF%8D-%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%88%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%87%E0%AE%B2%E0%AF%8D-%E0%AE%AE/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Next after 2004, I could find use of "sickular" only in 2006. The word
> is
> >>> seen figuring repeatedly after that in 2008 and 2009.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - Jan 2006,  "indusAquarius" comments on the Blog "Shadow Warrior" :
> >>>
> >>> "This Mahesh Bhatt is among the bigwigs of the Sickular brigade."
> >>>
> >>>
> http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2006/01/british-mohammedan-preachers-vision.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - Feb 2006, on the same Blog, "daisies" questions "DarkStorm" :
> >>>
> >>> "And your daily songs of "sickular" are not sickening for anyone ?"
> >>> http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2006/02/indians-as-blacks.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - March 2006, on the "OUTLOOKINDIA" site, in a comment, "Ramchi" says:
> >>>
> >>> "Only in India where Hindu temples which are under the control of
> >>> sickular governments charging Hindus for praying their Gods."
> >>> http://www.outlookindia.com/printdis_v2.asp?refer=64867&childid=64867
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - March 2006, in the "Wisdom Blog" on the INDIATIMES site, "Ram"
> >>> comments:
> >>>
> >>> "If not, at the first opportunity, fly out of India, leaving the
> country
> >>> in the hands of this 'sickular' govt."
> >>> http://o3.indiatimes.com/wisenation/archive/2006/03/29/574301.aspx
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - May 2006, on the site "Sepia Mutiny", "Gaurav" questions "Mahajan
> >>> Skeptic":
> >>>
> >>> "In your scheme of thing I guess India was a Ram Rajya (oops, that is
> >>> communal !), I meant paradise under "sickular" Congress until Devil
> (BJP)
> >>> came and serpent (LKA) robbed Indians of innocence."
> >>>
> >>>
> http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:yGIEYP-BFs4J:www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/003334.html+%22sickular%22&cd=90&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ae
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - May 2006, "Blinded" comments in the "UNITED WE BLOG! FOR A DEMOCRATIC
> >>> NEPAL" :
> >>>
> >>> "I am amazed that still you all are not aware of what is true
> secularism
> >>> and what is happening to India due to sickular (secular) ideology!!"
> >>>
> >>>
> http://blog.com.np/united-we-blog/2006/05/18/no-hindu-kingdom-celebrating-secularism-in-nepal/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - May 2006, "SPINDIANMEDIA" titles an entry in Blog of same name:
> >>>
> >>> "Vir Sanghvi's "sickular" double standards on stark display"
> >>>
> >>>
> http://spindianmedia.blogspot.com/2006/05/vir-sanghvis-sickular-double-standards.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - June 2006, we have "Shmuel Kuper" commenting on what appears to be an
> >>> Israeli site "CROSS CURRENTS":
> >>>
> >>>  "Hopefully, the readers of this forum do not belong to the brainwashed
> >>> sickular public who do not care to read facts that might confuse their
> >>> brainwashed mind, and will find interest in facts rather than
> antisemite
> >>> propaganda, the “isreali” media so excels in, putting the “Jewish”
> state as
> >>> the #1 antisemite state in the Western world."
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2006/06/28/yisrael-valis-the-court-transcript/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - Jan 2007, on the site INDIANMUSLIMS, "Sharique" writes a piece,
> titling
> >>> it "The SICKular parties" and writes:
> >>>
> >>> "Incidents like these often develop this feeling in me that would India
> >>> have been in a much better position as a ‘Hindu Rashtra’ ? At least
> there
> >>> would have been no hypocrisy on the parts of these sickular political
> >>> parties"
> >>> http://indianmuslims.in/the-sickular-parties/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Kshmendra
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com
> >> _________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://venukm.blogspot.com/
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>
>
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