[Reader-list] [Lalgarh Does not Exist]

Thu Jun 25 17:16:21 IST 2009

Dear Rajen

I think Anupam made a valid point which cannot be dismissed under generalisations.

If I underrstood correctly, Anupam also finds unacceptable any violence whether perpetrated in the name of  "naxals" or "hindu right" or "muslim fundamentalism" or "zionism" or "violent evangelism".

But Anupam would like "naxalism" and "maoism" to be looked at differently from the others mentioned. In this I agree with him.

If India is a Democracy and supposed to be a Secular one, then Divinations or self-arrogation of believed in Divinely-ordained-Rights cannot be acceptable. Religion by itself is based on irrationalities, or to use a kinder word "Belief". In the name of a Religion, words and acts that create divides or pronounce the superiority of one over the other cannot be acceptable. Violence in the name of Religion is an attempt to enforce the acceptance of such presumed superiority. Sorry Sir! Not acceptable.

Where Naxalism and Maoism differ is in their being based not on irrationalities but in 'dissatisfactions' provoked by being subjected to Discrimination; Exploitation; Unjust Treatment; Non-Availability of Justice: Non-Delivery of Justice.

The violence, excesses, depravations in the name of Religion can simply be done away with by doing away with Religions or as is more practical by doing away with the Recognition of Religions (by the State, while they may continue as private affairs). Doing either or at least the latter will not be a loss to humankind.

To do away with the violence, depravations, excesses in the name of "Naxalism" and "Maoism" we will need to do away with the "  Discrimination; Exploitation; Unjust Treatment; Non-Availability of Justice: Non-Delivery of Justice.". That will only make the world better.

I hope you can recognise the offered distinction between the two sets.

In any case, Anupam too does not find acceptable the violence in the name of "Naxalism", "Maoism" either.

Religious-Extremism needs to be supressed. Social-Extremism needs to be addressed with credible solutions.

Kshmendra

--- On Thu, 6/25/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] [Lalgarh Does not Exist]
To: "anupam chakravartty" <c.anupam at gmail.com>
Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:18 PM

Dear Anupam,

it is not pertinent whether you cite millions or few hundreds, of the
incidents of crime and violence, the issue is such criminals have to be
taken care by rule of laws, no justification or excuse that it is "reaction"
to action will suffice, is unjustifiable.

With population of over one billion, the incidents of deviants have to be
dealt firmly, according to laws, judicial system fine tunes to act quickly,
as justice is not only to be delivered, but seen to be as
delivered.Individuals or group of individuals becoming vigilantes or
delivering justice vecause the system is slow is only compounding the issues
in to bigger problems of law and order as the law keepers will be
outnumbered by such mobs, and chaos will be the result in society fo all
citizens.Justifying any type of violence is absolutely absurd, as it only
encourages the individuals to form a critical mass of numbers of individuals
to indulge in violence, extortion, rape and ilegal acts on other citizens.

Regards,

Rajen.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:03 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote:

> Dear Rajen,
>
> Sir i can cite millions of similar examples from the north east, who have
> been killed selectively for the past 19 years from Assam, Manipur,
> Nagaland.
> You may not even find chargesheets for them. the only witness is a lone
> wife, or a mother or a sister. you know people usually dont lie about
> missing people and suffer the prying eyes of the society. At least we know
> that Sadhvi Pragya is in a custody. What are your thought 1192 persons
> including wife of one Satish Mishra burnt in the Godhra train carnage, who
> is officially still missing in the police records. these are the seeds of
> discontent that lawmakers are sowing -- the so called morally upright. i
> have no sympathies for sadhvi or any one who is abetting or encouraging
> these activities even in the case of naxals but i would be interested as to
> find the root of all these discontentment. however, if i am asked to rank
> naxals and hindu right or muslim fundamentalism or zionism or violent
> evangelism, i would say naxals or maoists are more real and have a better
> ideology than fundamentalists. at least in their aims, they are supposed
> to be fighting for the cause of the downtrodden. my only cause of concern
> is
> the use of violent means to gather support and selective killing of the
> feudal lord by the naxals. however, fundamentalism doesnt deserve a space
> in
> the democracy. never...never. it is evil to think that i am a hindu
> that's why i should rule the land and be the law...its purely evil.
>
> thanks anupam
>
> On 6/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > dear Anupam,
> >
> >    a citizen of the nation only becomes the politician , police officer
> or
> > law keeper and elite security personnel, Any one who breaks law has to be
> > under  scanner of same rule of laws, democracy in practice is where
> > irrespective of the status, faith or contents of the  purse of the
> > individual, rule of laws prevails. But we see different yardsticks being
> > used by our citizens on different occassions, just one example, a 28 year
> > old lady is in custody of SIT in mumbai for months now, with
> investigation
> > not showing any progress or proof, but we talk of our concerns,worry
> about
> > some,  selectively, not about this lady, because she is labeled as
> sadhvi.?
> > What about human rights of this lady and eleven others who for the sake
> of
> > vote gains, division of votes were arrested by a ruthless fuedal leader
> > using honest cop, Hemanth karkare.?
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:52 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> dear rajen,
> >>
> >> you should have included the politicians, the police officials, CRPF
> >> members
> >> who take violent measures to quell violence. its ironical but true as
> well
> >> as in several places in andhra pradesh, manipur, kashmir. politicians
> are
> >> biggest sympathiser of such actions..they are equally responsible.
> instead
> >> of question why such violent forms of dissent are happening across the
> >> nation, you are just discussing what forms of dissent should be
> employed.
> >> why there should be so much of strife? unless you dont understand and
> >> express your thoughts about that talking merely about violence becomes
> >> irrelevant.
> >>
> >> second, inclusion of binayak sen and teesta setalvad along with praveen
> >> togadia makes your argument really weak here. because you seem to have
> one
> >> yardstick to measure everyone -- either you are with us ( the so-called
> >> law
> >> abiding citizens) or you are an enemy of the state. however problems in
> >> this nation exist in particular as it is a diverse country. even several
> >> state security agencies do not employ similar measures in tackling with
> >> the issues in chattisgarh to quell naxalite movement, while keeping the
> >> communal rioting at bay. so how are presenting binayak sen and praveen
> >> togadia in the same pedestal. the word "sympathiser" has several
> >> connotations. you can sympathise with the cause that a particular
> movement
> >> is raising but may not sympathise the means by which solutions to the
> >> problem are being taken by these banned organisations.
> >>
> >> -thanks anupam
> >>
> >> On 6/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Dear All,
> >> >
> >> >    any citizen, in his / her excercise of rights of freedom to
> >> expression
> >> > can express his/her views in democratic India, but taking laws into
> >> their
> >> > own hands as a way of demonstration of protest is not acceptable in
> any
> >> > society, as this violence not only hurts the innocents, but also
> >> destroys
> >> > the civil liberties of citizens and violence only begets more of it.
> Be
> >> it
> >> > naxalites, maoists, fanatics of any faith, when they resort to violent
> >> > means
> >> > of addressing the issues that they percieve as wrong, it destroys the
> >> > societal harmony, liberties of the citizens, worse, it ushers in
> >> atrocities
> >> > by the state machinery on every citizen under assumption that he/she
> is
> >> > "sympathiser"
> >> > of such violent actions of these groups. Binayak Sen and all other
> well
> >> > meaning individuals  of naxalites also fall in this category,just as a
> >> > praveen togadia or afjal guru and geelanis and theestas of the nation.
> >> Let
> >> > the laws of the land take firm and definite action against law
> breakers,
> >> > whether in uniform or citizens of the nation, only rule of laws which
> if
> >> > impartial, non partisan, without fear or favour acts on the deviants
> in
> >> the
> >> > society, the democracy will floursh, dissent without violent action to
> >> > express dissent is acceptable, but dissent in the form of violence is
> >> not
> >> > acceptable in civil society.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Rajen.
> >> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:14 PM, subhrodip sengupta <
> >> > sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Maoist spokesman detained in Kolkata for questioning. Finally to
> >> threaten
> >> > > these people you yeild the rod in central Kolkata. Nothing new, they
> >> had
> >> > > always been. Now specially when govt gets itchy over NAxalite's
> >> strategy,
> >> > > what aft But detaining spokespersons or message bearers is against
> >> > > politics.. Naah these guys wanna rub out the traits of Maoism from
> all
> >> > books
> >> > > in India, something in which the Khilji's failed. Bad luck, Mr.
> >> > Chakravorty,
> >> > > you are in the police net. As for Central Kol., it has always
> >> woitnessed
> >> > > police attrocities for the last decade. Off course there might be
> some
> >> > bomb,
> >> > > etc. but isnt this guy a herald. A few women were similarly held in
> >> Delhi
> >> > > recently on same allegations without substantial proof as if thus
> the
> >> > > ideology can be erased and the system and the ranks rationalised.
> This
> >> > came
> >> > > hopefully as a reaction to a pro-people's assembly where some noted
> >> > > activist threated to arrange a Dharna before writers and BUddhadev's
> >> > office,
> >> > > with
> >> > >  off course many Maoists, if CPI(ML) was banned. The ideology is
> >> clearly
> >> > > more dangerous and revolutionary than the army! Messing up things
> will
> >> > > definitely not help, Mr. Bhattacharya! LAlgarh lives on, as a
> >> revolution.
> >> > > Does First War of Independance( Ok revolt of 1857 exist?)
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >      Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights
> and
> >> > > more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com
> >> > > _________________________________________
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Rajen.
> >> > _________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rajen.
> >
> >
> _________________________________________
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>

-- 
Rajen.
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