[Reader-list] FW: Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India grants Visa

taraprakash taraprakash at gmail.com
Mon Mar 16 03:43:36 IST 2009 

"whole indipendence movement was bullshit". Spot on.

Sau mein sattar adami filhaal jab nashaad hai
Dil pe rakh ke haath kahiye desh kya aazad hai.

Kothiyon se mulk ki maiyyar ko mat napiye
Asli hindustan to foot-path par aabad hai.

(I forgot who originally wrote this wonderful lines)


Paraphrase:

When 70 out of 100 Indians are in trouble, can you say for sure that the 
country is free? Don't measure the achievements of the country by palatial 
mansions, true Hindustan inhabits the side walks.


Is kadar pabindi-e majahab ke sadke aap ke
Jab se azadi mili hai mulk mein ramzaan hai.

Here Dushyant Kumar is challenging our secular credentials. Ever since we 
attained "freedom" the country is fasting.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sandeep" <vashsand at hotmail.com>
To: "sa" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 5:18 PM
Subject: [Reader-list] FW: Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India 
grants Visa


>
> 'Data on mass violence show
> that secular states, backed by secular ideologies, account for at least
> two-thirds of all the deaths in organized mass violence during the 
> twentieth
> century.' (Nandy, A 2009 p-5)
>
>
>
> Nandy has big problem here. im not sure he takes into account better 
> health sevices in last 3 centuries or so leading to polpulation explosion. 
> and better weapon technologies. both accounting for larger numbers of 
> population being massacered. Nandy with his postmodren traditionalism lays 
> all blame on secularism/modernity etc , no doubt doubt secular ideologies 
> r also guilty of mass murder, its not their monoply. ppl like gandhi, ali 
> brothers who used religon for political gains thus were instrumental in 
> alienating secular ppl like jinnah and maybe savarkar equally guilty of 
> mass murder. in a way whole indipendence movement was bullshit . useless 
> murder for gain of few ppl. for majority of indians maybe it would hv been 
> better they were still part of british empire, maybe we would hv acheived 
> same kind of status like aussies and canadians by now.
>
>
>
> anyway its daydreaming as i dont underestimate neither british or 
> southasian philistine racism/xenophobia
>
>> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:22:15 +0000
>> From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com
>> To: indersalim at gmail.com
>> CC: reader-list at sarai.net
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India 
>> grants Visa
>>
>> What's so good about it mr. Inder...I do not think that everything which 
>> is
>> illegitimate 'in the eyes of the law is bound to face oppression'. The 
>> South
>> Asian experience at least tells us that structural arrangements 
>> pertaining
>> to big governement sometimes takes a back seat to human agency when it 
>> comes
>> to 'dealing' with law, in most cases. 'Jugaad' is a poignant example such 
>> a
>> negotiation. And what you suggest as a paradox regarding the tendency to
>> 'tolerate' liberals etc is perhaps an all pervasive modern myth, 
>> something
>> which we all want to believe in for, and again I would like to drag in
>> Nandy's argument here, when he suggests that, 'Data on mass violence show
>> that secular states, backed by secular ideologies, account for at least
>> two-thirds of all the deaths in organized mass violence during the 
>> twentieth
>> century.' (Nandy, A 2009 p-5) So there you go, it seems as if the only 
>> way
>> when voices of the other can be heard is perhaps when they acquire a 
>> state
>> like power or perhaps when the state itself starts decaying by its own
>> rotten or rottening mass.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Taha
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > good mr. Taha
>> >
>> > just to intensity
>> > that how minorities and plus all the vulnerable
>> > around us goes into the building of a nation state,
>> > the word ' legitimate' is very interesting here, i feel
>> >
>> > because what is illegitimate in the eyes of nation and its Law is
>> > bound to face oppression.
>> >
>> > there is however, a paradox, that how the same Nation State protects (
>> > or as Nation Sate lovers say 'tolerate; ) the liberals, not as its
>> > duty but its lenient/flexible approach... ( as a Lion ignores the Rat
>> > who teases him while deep slumber )
>> >
>> > The State, a hardened state, infact does not want any interruption in
>> > the Laws that have been recongnized as legitimate.
>> > the question is how
>> > voices of the other
>> > can force the State to bend
>> > and recognize the ' blood' that has gone into the steel of its 
>> > structures
>> > and is lustily looking for more 'blood shedding', unfotunately,
>> > legitimately
>> >
>> > best
>> > is
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Taha Mehmood
>> > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote:
>> > > Dear Kshmendra
>> > >
>> > > Do you think that this is a predicament of 'Hindus' alone or a 
>> > > general
>> > > tendency of majoritiarian nation states to alienate minorities on the
>> > basis
>> > > of their so called religious/ethnic identities? How different is the
>> > > situation of 'Hindus' in Pakistan from 'Muslims' of India or 'Hindus' 
>> > > of
>> > > Bangladesh or 'Jews' of Germany sometime back or 'Christians' of Rome 
>> > > a
>> > long
>> > > time back or 'Tutsis' of Rwanda or ' Tibetan Buddhists' of China or
>> > > 'Palestianian Arabs' of Israel or 'Blacks or Hispaniacs of America, 
>> > > when
>> > it
>> > > comes to assertion of dominant ethno-religious form of nationalism.
>> > >
>> > > This makes me think about the Asis Nandy's observation about violence 
>> > > and
>> > > blood shedding as part of legitimate strategy for nation building. 
>> > > Are we
>> > > witnessing another round of 'demonic and seductive' form a religious
>> > > nationalism? Could we read the terrible experience of 'Hnidu' 
>> > > families as
>> > > yet another sick rite of exorcism? (the link to this essay by Nandy 
>> > > was
>> > > kindly posted by Jeebesh on the reader-list few days ago). Are we
>> > witnessing
>> > > signs of an 'Islamic' revolution in Pakistan?
>> > >
>> > > It is indeed sad and disgusting to see sections of pakistan's neo
>> > political
>> > > class pick on 'Hindus' to make an example of them.
>> > >
>> > > Regards
>> > >
>> > > Taha
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Kshmendra Kaul 
>> > > <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
>> > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Versions of the news item reproduced below (from PunjabNewsline) 
>> > >> have
>> > also
>> > >> appeared in:
>> > >>
>> > >> - ZEENEWS "Pak Hindu families seekl India citizenship"
>> > >> http://international.zeenews.com/inner1.asp?aid=203968&sid=HEL
>> > >>
>> > >> - DAWN "Fata’s 35 Hindus migrate to India"
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/fatas-35-hindus-migrate-to-india--bi
>> > >>
>> > >> Kshmendra
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> "Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India grants Visa"
>> > >> JAGMOHAN SINGH
>> > >> Saturday, 07 March 2009
>> > >>
>> > >> AMRITSAR: Indian Government has granted one year visa to 35 Hindu
>> > migrants
>> > >> from Pakistan who faced threat to their lives in Pakistan, 
>> > >> particularly
>> > in
>> > >> tribal areas. The group including 16 men, 16 females and three 
>> > >> children
>> > had
>> > >> crossed over to india few days back.
>> > >>
>> > >> The Pak Hindus narrated their woes to Indian authorities. They 
>> > >> carried
>> > the
>> > >> nightmare, experienced Immediately after they went to Delhi to get
>> > extension
>> > >> in visa and permission to stay in Amritsar. All the families arrived 
>> > >> in
>> > >> Amritsar on Saturday after obtaining visa for one year.
>> > >>
>> > >> Jagdish Sharma resident of tribal area near Peshawar in Pakistan 
>> > >> said,
>> > “We
>> > >> were living in Pakistan under severe fear psychosis due to the
>> > domination of
>> > >> strong group of Taliban people who are running parallel Government. 
>> > >> In
>> > such
>> > >> circumstances, Hindus and Sikh families were not safe, especially 
>> > >> our
>> > female
>> > >> members. We preferred to migrate in India, at least here in India we 
>> > >> can
>> > >> breathe out with peace and calm mind since our families are safe in
>> > India”.
>> > >>
>> > >> Adding further he said, “We strongly urge the Government of India to
>> > allow
>> > >> us stay here in India permanently, since we don’t want to go back in 
>> > >> the
>> > >> hellish atmosphere where there is no life security”.
>> > >>
>> > >> Jagdish Sharma said, “All the 35 members of four Hindu families 
>> > >> would
>> > never
>> > >> prefer to return to Pakistan. Now we have intention to settle here
>> > >> permanently and expect that Government of India would never 
>> > >> disappoint
>> > the
>> > >> Pakistan based Hindus who arrived here after being plundered in
>> > Pakistan”.
>> > >>
>> > >> Hardwari Lal resident of Orkzai nearly 180 kilometers from Peshawar
>> > said,
>> > >> “I was running my grocery shop there which was forcibly took over by 
>> > >> the
>> > >> fundamentalist people who also took possession of our entire 
>> > >> property.
>> > Even
>> > >> Sikh Gurdwara (Sikh shrine) as well as Hindu Temples were not safe,
>> > since
>> > >> none of the priest of respective religions dare to stay there for
>> > required
>> > >> necessary ritual daily prayers. Pakistan Government has appointed 
>> > >> local
>> > >> executive magistrates as a care taker for religious shrines in the
>> > tribal
>> > >> area of Pakistan”.
>> > >>
>> > >> Hardwari said, “We strongly urge the Government of India to do the
>> > needful
>> > >> for us so that we could settle down in India and could reestablish 
>> > >> our
>> > >> business here as there is no chance for us to go back to Pakistan”.
>> > >>
>> > >> Rekha a female migrant from Peshawar said, “ We have heaved sigh of
>> > relief
>> > >> while reaching on Indian territory, since every morning we were
>> > observing
>> > >> close encounter to death as life is highly unsecured. My parents 
>> > >> were
>> > always
>> > >> worried about me and my brothers due to domination of fundamentalist
>> > people.
>> > >> Being a girl I Never went out of my house and remained confined with 
>> > >> in
>> > the
>> > >> four walls of our house. I never got privilege to obtain education,
>> > since
>> > >> girls were not allowed to attend school in the tribal area of 
>> > >> Pakistan”.
>> > >>
>> > >> Adding further Rekha said, “There was no life in the tribal area of
>> > >> Pakistan, as there was no liberty for women to move out, if gets
>> > chance
>> > >> only in Burqa (clad) while covering face and body with black gown. 
>> > >> In
>> > >> Pakistan Taliban considers Hindu community very meek and feeble.
>> > Numerous
>> > >> Hindu families still were languishing in the tribal area of Pakistan 
>> > >> as
>> > >> unable to get visa for India which they were facing acute hardship.
>> > Since
>> > >> for visa everybody has to appear before the Indian High Commission 
>> > >> and
>> > for
>> > >> women it is difficult to come out from house to move out from the 
>> > >> tribal
>> > >> area”, she quipped.
>> > >>
>> > >> http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/15562/40/
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> _________________________________________
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>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com
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