[Reader-list] FW: Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India grants Visa

[taraprakash]

Hi Taha and all.
As far as my understanding goes, the formation of the organization you mentioned had nothing to do with independence movement. Nor had formation of Indian National Congress to do with that movement. Formation of Shiv Sena had nothing to do with independence movement of Maha Rashtra, but they may soon start demanding a free Maharashtristan as their ideology evolves/corrupts. Evolution/corruption of ideology is part and parcel of ambitious plans of an institution or some individuals in it.
I never seriously treaded that path, but now as time permits I will need to go through the formation of Hindu Maha Sabha, may be my understanding will not remain that limited then. 

Your justification about how it matters for a public discussion whether an individual will keep holding the same opinions or he/she will change did not convince me. But you don't need to do it again. I need not get convinced.

Thanks
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Taha Mehmood 
  To: taraprakash 
  Cc: Sandeep ; reader-list 
  Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:45 AM
  Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared,India grants Visa


  Dear Taraprakash

  Thank you for your mail. 

  I think it is a matter of how we look at things, for you it may be quite clear that such an such discourse fits neatly in a category and such and such does not. Unfortunately my mind does not work on a linear trajectory. Far more than determining primary causality I am more interested in seeking how X event is related to Y and conjecturing whether X is related to that seemingly remote event Z too. I may be wrong in thinking like this, but that is hardly a deterrence. Perhaps that is why in all my earnestness I was eager to perceive the independence movement as not only the one which was run by run congress but also by all other social groups of varying persuasions. This might seem to you as 'forcing' a discourse into another one but it is merely an attempt to garner a wider interpretation, in other words, it is an attempt to increase the number of variables in an equation to further ascertain whether such an increase, adversely or favorably effect the outcome. 

  Hence I am curious, because reading your mail gives me a feeling that you seem to suggest that the formation of Hindu Mahasabha has nothing got to do with independence movement, but I am not sure, so let me ask you- Do you think the Hindu Mahashabha was an isolated case of coming together of people of an imagined homogeneous religious identity that has nothing got to do with the independence movement?

  You add, 'I also fail to understand why would you ask an individual if his/her position on an issue will remain unchanged.' The reason is quite simple is it not. It take years to form a world view, like it take years to define one's character, one's politics and I would not like to assume that Sandeep Dixit's character or position should make him think that the independence movement was 'bullshit',  maybe it not so hunky dory, everything did not go right, we did not become equal and so on, but nevertheless it was an attempt which gave hope to a lot of people and we must respect that. India is young democracy and it will take time to change, it took almost three hundred years of 'democracy' and 'freedom' for the Brits to realise that women should also be given a right to vote. The time horizon of social processes as we all know, is slow and issues take years of deliberation to get negotiated which when juxtaposed against our current sensibility of instant coffee, instant cash, instant messaging, instant work etc might seem anachronistic.

  Regards 

  Taha 





  On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:09 AM, taraprakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:

    Dear Taha and all.
    I am not sure how fair it is to say that since X was thief, y too was a thief. Taha seems to have perfected the art of forcing Y in to discourse of X so that the discourse of x gets sidelined, not necessarily intentionally.
    May be Hindu Maha Sabha, PLO, KKK, ANC, DMK, LTTE, WHO, UNCTARD, and all other possible social or political formations are bull shit, but still they are not the same. Different bulls produce different kind of shit.

    I also fail to understand why would you ask an individual if his/her position on an issue will remain unchanged. One may read a bit and evolve one's position. May be one gets more radical and call the "independence movement" pig shit. Does it help the discussion in any way asking if Sandeep's position will change?

    Coming to independence of India, I wish you had added some rationale to assume that we became a just society after "independence" (when you say that British rule was unjust).
    Regards
    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>
    To: "Sandeep" <vashsand at hotmail.com>
    Cc: "reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
    Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:55 PM
    Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared,India grants Visa