[Reader-list] Osip Mandelstam and Varun Gandhi: a clear contrast

Thu Mar 19 14:47:11 IST 2009

So bhai Pawan, you're not interested in defending Varun Gandhi anymore?
best
shivam

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Mr Inder & friend Shivam,
>
> While I agree with some expressions of Inder Ji, I reject his statement
> where he quotes that the Kashmiri Pandits suffered in 1990.
>
> It almost portrays as if the whole suffering of Kashmiri Pandits gets
> restricted to 1990. Inder Ji, you re wrong .......the suffering continues
> till today.
>
> And you further go down and try to justify by quoting 1947. Well, if history
> has a role to play , why do you not justify that the whole conversions of
> Hindus in Kashmir by Turks, Afghans etc was unfortunate. Had it not happened
> that whole Kashmir problem would not have been there.
>
> We do understand that the Govt of India is equally responsible and would not
> be talking to Kashmiri Pandits . You are absolutely bang on. However , i
> swear , even if there is a resolution , where Kashmiri Hindus are not
> involved...... The Kashmir problem would continue to exist and it more vocal
> and more embarassment for Govt Of India. If GOI doesnt involve us , there
> would not be a solution. We may not be having the might , but we would be a
> pain for them.
>
> Shivam : Pls quote law everywhere . When it comes down to Kashmiri
> separatist, you almost endrose a further partition of India and at the same
> time you forget the resoltion passed in the parliament about Jammu &
> Kashmir.
> Do I need to remind you of that ?
>
> Warm regards
>
> Pawan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 9:08 PM, shivam at kafila.org <shivam at kafila.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> You see nothing wrong, why trouble Hindus at all? Hindutva 101: Create a
>> false bogey of Muslims troubling Hindus, Muslims multiplying etc., and in
>> the name of defence mount your offence.
>>
>> Tell me, if somebody in Kashmir was to say cut hands of Indians who
>> trouble you, will Pawa Durani still say what's wrong with that? Why trouble
>> Kashmiris at all? Will you still say the leader was just delivering it for
>> his constituency.
>>
>> And he said a lot more.
>>
>> What's wrong is that inflammatory, communal statemnets like these are
>> punishable by law. Law Mr Durani? Indian Constitution? That same hing whose
>> "full flow" you desire in J&K?
>>
>> shivam
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sir,
>>>
>>> If I am not wrong what Varun allegedly said was that he would cut those
>>> hands which trouble hindus.
>>>
>>> As a leader of a party which everyone considers to be a right wing hindu
>>> party , I see nothing wrong in what he has said. He is after all
>>> delivering
>>> to his constituency .
>>>
>>> And his message was to those who would trouble hindus ......so why
>>> trouble
>>> hindus at all... ?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Pawan
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Kshmendra Kaul
>>> <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>
>>> > Dear Inder
>>> >
>>> > I am looking for the text of the complete speech made by Varun. Do you
>>> > have
>>> > any access to that?
>>> >
>>> > I have read snippets in the Press and heard beeped out sound bites on
>>> > TV
>>> > but that does not give me an idea of what exactly he said and in what
>>> > context.
>>> >
>>> > Hope you can oblige.
>>> >
>>> > If Varun was stoking communal passions then not allowing him to contest
>>> > the
>>> > elections would be only a minor rap on his wrists. If guilty, he should
>>> > suffer much much heavier penalties.
>>> >
>>> > Kshmendra
>>> >
>>> > --- On Tue, 3/17/09, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > From: Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
>>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Osip Mandelstam and Varun Gandhi: a clear
>>> > contrast
>>> > To: "reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>>> > Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 11:11 PM
>>> >
>>> > Varun Gandhi, the grand son of Indira Gandhi,  is a BJP canditate for
>>> > coming Lok Sabha ( parliamentary elections ), who was recorded on
>>> > camera while giving lecture to people in Philbit, UP ( north India ).
>>> > Both police and Election commission have issued notice to Mr. Varun
>>> > Gandhi for his inflammatory communal speech, with the intention to
>>> > gain votes for his party. Sad, if he is allowed to contest elections
>>> > after this incident.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > The name ‘The Pale of Settlement’ in Russia was given to a region in
>>> > > which Jews were allowed, and beyond which Jewish settlement was
>>> > > generally prohibited. Osip Mandelstam was born to such a Jewish
>>> > > family
>>> > > in 1891, But this is why he got himself killed in 1938:
>>> > >
>>> > > Stalin Epigram
>>> > > We live, but we do not feel the land beneath us,
>>> > > Ten steps away and our words cannot be heard,
>>> > > And when there are just enough people for half a dialogue,
>>> > > Then they remember the Kremlin Highlander.
>>> > > His fat fingers are slimy like slugs,
>>> > > And his words are absolute, like grocers' weights.
>>> > > His cockroach whiskers are laughing,
>>> > > And his boot tops shine.
>>> > > And around him the rabble of narrow-necked chiefs –
>>> > > He plays with the services of half-men.
>>> > > Who warble, or miaow, or moan.
>>> > > He alone pushes and prods.
>>> > > Decree after decree he hammers them out like horseshoes,
>>> > > In the groin, in the forehead, in the brows, or in the eye.
>>> > > When he has an execution it's a special treat,
>>> > > And the Ossetian chest swells.
>>> > >
>>> > > Amazing, in his poem ‘ Black Sun’ which he wrote about Palestine
>>> > > issue, I see his poems on  all the subject. Even in Translation his
>>> > > words dance.
>>> > >
>>> > > Mandelstam's own prophecy was fulfilled: "Only in Russia is
>>> > poetry
>>> > > respected – it gets people killed. Is there anywhere else where
>>> > > poetry
>>> > > is so common a motive for murder?"
>>> > > Here, I remember, Abdul Sattar Ranjoor, the poet/activist in Kashmir
>>> > > who was killed by extreme Right wing forces in 1990. Hazrat Sarmad,
>>> > > the great poet saint too was killed by King Aurangzeb for similar
>>> > > political reasons. Right now, 90 year old MF Husain, is facing death
>>> > > threats from same Right winged politics. There is a strange history
>>> > > behind great poets, particularly those who spoke against the
>>> > > establishment.  The moment you defy the order, the powerful, the
>>> > > ruler, the convention, the superstition, you give birth n enemy,
>>> > > irrational but strangely potent. Meera was poisoned for defying the
>>> > > Royal order and for her expression of Poet’s choice. Lal Ded too was
>>> > > thrown out by her Orthodox-Brahmin in-laws for her poetic utterances
>>> > > and wisdom of being. There must be no. of cases when wise  and
>>> > > sensible people had to face the wrath of rulers.
>>> > > Strange, that we had to listen to Varun Gandhi, whom I remember,
>>> > > published his first book of poems few years ago. I guess, after
>>> > > demolition of Babri Mosque, former PM Mr. Vajpayee jee too published
>>> > > his book of poems. Some Artists added brush strokes to his verses and
>>> > > exhibited at Lalit Kala Academy, even.
>>> > > Strange that, this brand of poets dont write about their truer
>>> > > intentions directly, as we see in how poets who get themselves killed
>>> > > or exiled. So we have ambitious poets who can provoke people to kill
>>> > > each other, and in turn get rewarded even.  Strange, we have
>>> > > musicians
>>> > > and poets, these days, who are delighted to get rewarded by the same
>>> > > state who sings songs for their erstwhile politicians as and when
>>> > > election times are nearing. These days, on National TV, we often hear
>>> > > Jai Ho, how Nehru ji brought industrial revolution, Jai Ho, how
>>> > > Indira
>>> > > Ji brought Green Revolution, Jia ho, How Rajiv Ji brought IT
>>> > > revolution, Jia Ho, So vote for Congress, and if you don’t like this
>>> > > party, then vote Varun Gandhi, their own cousin, on the other side of
>>> > > the fence.
>>> > >
>>> > > With love and regards
>>> > > Inder salim
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > >
>>> > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com
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