[Reader-list] Osip Mandelstam and Varun Gandhi: a clear contrast

Thu Mar 19 18:31:36 IST 2009

Bhai Shivam,

Do you defend Lalu, Ram Vilas , Karat ,Karunanidhi , Mehbooba , Mufti ,
Madani , Mullahyam etc..... Do you believe that these people should be
barred from elections ?

Answer me with reasons and I would have an answer for you.

Pawan

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 2:47 PM, shivam at kafila.org <shivam at kafila.org>wrote:

> So bhai Pawan, you're not interested in defending Varun Gandhi anymore?
> best
> shivam
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Dear Mr Inder & friend Shivam,
> >
> > While I agree with some expressions of Inder Ji, I reject his statement
> > where he quotes that the Kashmiri Pandits suffered in 1990.
> >
> > It almost portrays as if the whole suffering of Kashmiri Pandits gets
> > restricted to 1990. Inder Ji, you re wrong .......the suffering continues
> > till today.
> >
> > And you further go down and try to justify by quoting 1947. Well, if
> history
> > has a role to play , why do you not justify that the whole conversions of
> > Hindus in Kashmir by Turks, Afghans etc was unfortunate. Had it not
> happened
> > that whole Kashmir problem would not have been there.
> >
> > We do understand that the Govt of India is equally responsible and would
> not
> > be talking to Kashmiri Pandits . You are absolutely bang on. However , i
> > swear , even if there is a resolution , where Kashmiri Hindus are not
> > involved...... The Kashmir problem would continue to exist and it more
> vocal
> > and more embarassment for Govt Of India. If GOI doesnt involve us , there
> > would not be a solution. We may not be having the might , but we would be
> a
> > pain for them.
> >
> > Shivam : Pls quote law everywhere . When it comes down to Kashmiri
> > separatist, you almost endrose a further partition of India and at the
> same
> > time you forget the resoltion passed in the parliament about Jammu &
> > Kashmir.
> > Do I need to remind you of that ?
> >
> > Warm regards
> >
> > Pawan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 9:08 PM, shivam at kafila.org <shivam at kafila.org>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> You see nothing wrong, why trouble Hindus at all? Hindutva 101: Create a
> >> false bogey of Muslims troubling Hindus, Muslims multiplying etc., and
> in
> >> the name of defence mount your offence.
> >>
> >> Tell me, if somebody in Kashmir was to say cut hands of Indians who
> >> trouble you, will Pawa Durani still say what's wrong with that? Why
> trouble
> >> Kashmiris at all? Will you still say the leader was just delivering it
> for
> >> his constituency.
> >>
> >> And he said a lot more.
> >>
> >> What's wrong is that inflammatory, communal statemnets like these are
> >> punishable by law. Law Mr Durani? Indian Constitution? That same hing
> whose
> >> "full flow" you desire in J&K?
> >>
> >> shivam
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Sir,
> >>>
> >>> If I am not wrong what Varun allegedly said was that he would cut those
> >>> hands which trouble hindus.
> >>>
> >>> As a leader of a party which everyone considers to be a right wing
> hindu
> >>> party , I see nothing wrong in what he has said. He is after all
> >>> delivering
> >>> to his constituency .
> >>>
> >>> And his message was to those who would trouble hindus ......so why
> >>> trouble
> >>> hindus at all... ?
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> Pawan
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Kshmendra Kaul
> >>> <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Dear Inder
> >>> >
> >>> > I am looking for the text of the complete speech made by Varun. Do
> you
> >>> > have
> >>> > any access to that?
> >>> >
> >>> > I have read snippets in the Press and heard beeped out sound bites on
> >>> > TV
> >>> > but that does not give me an idea of what exactly he said and in what
> >>> > context.
> >>> >
> >>> > Hope you can oblige.
> >>> >
> >>> > If Varun was stoking communal passions then not allowing him to
> contest
> >>> > the
> >>> > elections would be only a minor rap on his wrists. If guilty, he
> should
> >>> > suffer much much heavier penalties.
> >>> >
> >>> > Kshmendra
> >>> >
> >>> > --- On Tue, 3/17/09, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > From: Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
> >>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Osip Mandelstam and Varun Gandhi: a clear
> >>> > contrast
> >>> > To: "reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >>> > Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 11:11 PM
> >>> >
> >>> > Varun Gandhi, the grand son of Indira Gandhi,  is a BJP canditate for
> >>> > coming Lok Sabha ( parliamentary elections ), who was recorded on
> >>> > camera while giving lecture to people in Philbit, UP ( north India ).
> >>> > Both police and Election commission have issued notice to Mr. Varun
> >>> > Gandhi for his inflammatory communal speech, with the intention to
> >>> > gain votes for his party. Sad, if he is allowed to contest elections
> >>> > after this incident.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > The name ‘The Pale of Settlement’ in Russia was given to a region
> in
> >>> > > which Jews were allowed, and beyond which Jewish settlement was
> >>> > > generally prohibited. Osip Mandelstam was born to such a Jewish
> >>> > > family
> >>> > > in 1891, But this is why he got himself killed in 1938:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Stalin Epigram
> >>> > > We live, but we do not feel the land beneath us,
> >>> > > Ten steps away and our words cannot be heard,
> >>> > > And when there are just enough people for half a dialogue,
> >>> > > Then they remember the Kremlin Highlander.
> >>> > > His fat fingers are slimy like slugs,
> >>> > > And his words are absolute, like grocers' weights.
> >>> > > His cockroach whiskers are laughing,
> >>> > > And his boot tops shine.
> >>> > > And around him the rabble of narrow-necked chiefs –
> >>> > > He plays with the services of half-men.
> >>> > > Who warble, or miaow, or moan.
> >>> > > He alone pushes and prods.
> >>> > > Decree after decree he hammers them out like horseshoes,
> >>> > > In the groin, in the forehead, in the brows, or in the eye.
> >>> > > When he has an execution it's a special treat,
> >>> > > And the Ossetian chest swells.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Amazing, in his poem ‘ Black Sun’ which he wrote about Palestine
> >>> > > issue, I see his poems on  all the subject. Even in Translation his
> >>> > > words dance.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Mandelstam's own prophecy was fulfilled: "Only in Russia is
> >>> > poetry
> >>> > > respected – it gets people killed. Is there anywhere else where
> >>> > > poetry
> >>> > > is so common a motive for murder?"
> >>> > > Here, I remember, Abdul Sattar Ranjoor, the poet/activist in
> Kashmir
> >>> > > who was killed by extreme Right wing forces in 1990. Hazrat Sarmad,
> >>> > > the great poet saint too was killed by King Aurangzeb for similar
> >>> > > political reasons. Right now, 90 year old MF Husain, is facing
> death
> >>> > > threats from same Right winged politics. There is a strange history
> >>> > > behind great poets, particularly those who spoke against the
> >>> > > establishment.  The moment you defy the order, the powerful, the
> >>> > > ruler, the convention, the superstition, you give birth n enemy,
> >>> > > irrational but strangely potent. Meera was poisoned for defying the
> >>> > > Royal order and for her expression of Poet’s choice. Lal Ded too
> was
> >>> > > thrown out by her Orthodox-Brahmin in-laws for her poetic
> utterances
> >>> > > and wisdom of being. There must be no. of cases when wise  and
> >>> > > sensible people had to face the wrath of rulers.
> >>> > > Strange, that we had to listen to Varun Gandhi, whom I remember,
> >>> > > published his first book of poems few years ago. I guess, after
> >>> > > demolition of Babri Mosque, former PM Mr. Vajpayee jee too
> published
> >>> > > his book of poems. Some Artists added brush strokes to his verses
> and
> >>> > > exhibited at Lalit Kala Academy, even.
> >>> > > Strange that, this brand of poets dont write about their truer
> >>> > > intentions directly, as we see in how poets who get themselves
> killed
> >>> > > or exiled. So we have ambitious poets who can provoke people to
> kill
> >>> > > each other, and in turn get rewarded even.  Strange, we have
> >>> > > musicians
> >>> > > and poets, these days, who are delighted to get rewarded by the
> same
> >>> > > state who sings songs for their erstwhile politicians as and when
> >>> > > election times are nearing. These days, on National TV, we often
> hear
> >>> > > Jai Ho, how Nehru ji brought industrial revolution, Jai Ho, how
> >>> > > Indira
> >>> > > Ji brought Green Revolution, Jia ho, How Rajiv Ji brought IT
> >>> > > revolution, Jia Ho, So vote for Congress, and if you don’t like
> this
> >>> > > party, then vote Varun Gandhi, their own cousin, on the other side
> of
> >>> > > the fence.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > With love and regards
> >>> > > Inder salim
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > --
> >>> > >
> >>> > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> >
> >>> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com
> >>> > _________________________________________
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> >>> >
> >>> >
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