[Reader-list] Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India grants Visa
Shuddhabrata Sengupta
shuddha at sarai.net
Thu Mar 19 20:29:44 IST 2009
Dear Kshmendra,
You said,
> But let me say this, it would be sheer idiocy and stupidity for any
> country to have one single 'policy prescription' that is
> identically and equally applicable to a) those who seek and are
> granted refuge; b) those who enter the country surreptitiously and
> c) those who overstay their Visa
The qualifications suggested by you are relevant as long as there are
visas. Why do you think visas and immigration controls will forever
define and regulate acts of travel. After all, if money, trade and
capital are expected to move freely in the world, so should labour,
and people in general,
Actually, the systems and regulations to do with passports and visas
on a general scale are pretty recent in human history. If, for
thousands of years, we have had several functioning societies that
did not regulate entry, or lay down conditions for the entry and stay
of migrants, then there is no reason for us to assume that social
life would automatically suffer some catastrophe if the regime of
visas and passports simply withers away. The city of Delhi is
maintained as it is by the labour of thousands of so called illegal
Bangladeshi migrants. They perform different forms of domestic
labour, run food stalls, ply rickshaws, collect and sort waste,
generate wealth and contribute in thousands of different ways to the
economy and the ecology of the city. Any attempt to forcibly deport
them from the city would make the city suffer.
I cannot see what sense there is at all in restricting the freedom of
peaceful movement, for whatever reason. The nature of all our
cultures testifies to the rich contributions that have been made by
all kinds of migrants, nomads, transients and travellers. Why cancel
these possibilities in the present and the future. What after all, is
wrong if people contribute with their labour and sociality to
societies and spaces that they were not necessarily born into?
best,
Shuddha
>
Your differentiation bet
On 19-Mar-09, at 7:21 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
> Dear Shivam
>
> It is not ethical of you to ascribe to me views or positions that
> have not been articulated by me.
>
> I gave no (what you have called) 'policy prescription' for those
> who enter surreptitiously or overstay their Visas. Did I?
>
> I agreed with you that there should be a uniform policy towards
> refugees. I qualified that by breaking it up into categories. Those
> who seek and are granted refugee and those who, by their very
> definition are not as yet refugees and who ingress into India
> surreptitiously or those who overstay their Visa.
>
> Yes I did say that the 'uniform policy' for one kind should not be
> the same for the others. So there would be separate 'uniform
> policies' for all sets. You could disagree with this formulation
> instead of losing control over your rationality.
>
> Neither you nor I gave any kind of a 'policy prescription'.
>
> Do you think it is correct on your part to ascribe to me a 'policy
> prescription' when I have not given any? I did not presume on your
> behalf any characteristics of your desired 'uniform policy', why
> should you presume on my behalf the characteristics of my
> differentiated 'uniform policies'
>
> I did not even say that those who's ingress is surreptitious or
> those who Overstay should not be granted refugee status. Did I?
>
> But let me say this, it would be sheer idiocy and stupidity for any
> country to have one single 'policy prescription' that is
> identically and equally applicable to a) those who seek and are
> granted refuge; b) those who enter the country surreptitiously and
> c) those who overstay their Visa
>
> It would be equally idiotic and stupid for anyone to suggest that
> it be so.
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 3/18/09, shivam at kafila.org <shivam at kafila.org> wrote:
>
> From: shivam at kafila.org <shivam at kafila.org>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared,
> India grants Visa
> To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
> Cc: "Shivam V" <lists at shivamvij.com>, "sarai list" <reader-
> list at sarai.net>
> Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 9:17 PM
>
> Dear Kshmendra,
>
> You say, "If it is suggested so, I will not agree that such a policy
> should also apply to those who's ingress into India is in a
> surreptitious manner or those who overstay the period allowed in their
> Visa."
>
> Now Tibetans cross into India "surreptitiously" - that is without
> visas, escaping the watchful eyes of Chinese forces, bribing Nepali
> forces, and then they finally reach after a long journey in which
> people even lose lives. So according to your policy prescription you
> are against Tibetans being given refugee status, right?
>
> Secondly, the Pakistani Hindus come to India on short-term tourist
> visas which, as I mentioned, expire long before Indian red tape gives
> them Indian citizenship. So according to your policy prescription,
> Pakistani Hindus whose visas have expired should be deported? There
> must be at least fifty thousand such individuals in Indian
> territory... you must request Aditya Raj Kaul to carry out a campaign
> to deport them.
>
> best
> shivam
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Kshmendra Kaul
> <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Shivam
>>
>> I will agree with you that India should follow a uniform policy
>> towards
> refugees from any part of the world who seek refuge and are granted
> refuge.
>>
>> If it is suggested so, I will not agree that such a policy should
> also apply to those who's ingress into India is in a surreptitious
> manner
> or those who overstay the period allowed in their Visa.
>>
>> You remarked on it in passing, but I would also agree that a uniform
> policy should be followed towards all Internally Displaced citizens
> of India.
>>
>> The sad part however is that people are driven by circumstances to
> disconnect themselves from their own environment and take refuge in
> an alien
> one.
>>
>> The magnitude of the desperation is the most significant in those who
> leave their own country and seek refuge in another country where
> they have none
> of the rights of a citizen. They know it and yet they make the choice.
>>
>> But the same character of desperation also bears upon those who
>> find it
> impossible to continue living in the land of their forefathers, the
> land of
> their heritage and culture and the land where they have the
> psychological
> support of being amongst family and friends and render themselves
> Internally
> Displaced.
>>
>> The Internal Displacement to some degree forced upon people by
>> forces of
> Nature resulting in floods, famines, tsunamis, earthquakes can be
> understood.
>>
>> It is the Internal Displacement of people due to factors brought
>> about
> by Political, Social, Religious, Corporate machinations that I find
> most
> disturbing. The State has failed in it's duty towards the citizens
> in such
> instances.
>>
>> I recognise, in some ways the characteristics of such (not by forces
> of Nature) Internal Displacement in the thousands who migrate from
> villages to
> towns to cities. The State has failed them.
>>
>> It is therefore equally and perhaps more important in my eyes that
>> the
> State provides such a protective environment for it's citizens that
> they
> are not 'driven' to seek refuge in another country, or to be rendered
> Internally Displaced in their own country.
>>
>> Kshmendra
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 3/17/09, Shivam V <lists at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Shivam V <lists at shivamvij.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared,
>> India
> grants Visa
>> To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
>> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 1:01 AM
>>
>> Dear Kshmendra,
>>
>> Thanks for posting this and bringing our attention to it. However,
>> there is nothing unusual about it. Pakistani Hindu migration to India
>> continues on an almost daily basis. I once did a story on them. I
>> went
>> to the Bhati mines area of Chattarpur in Delhi and met a family of 11
>> that had arrived just two days ago. There are at least a hundred
>> thousand Pakistani Hindus in Rajasthan, and with some leadership and
>> organisation some of them have been getting Indian citizenship. This
>> shows how the "long" Partition "continues" in the most
>> literal sense
>> of the word "continues". This is just like the Partition
> continues
>> over the unsettled dispute over the Kashmir Valley and the constant,
>> complaining allegations about "Bangaldeshis" who come to India,
> the
>> corresponding issues of "vote bank politics" and them
> 'snatching
>> away'
>> jobs from Bihari labourers.
>>
>> Firstly, the situtaion of the Pakistani Hindu refugees in India is
>> very bad. Indian red tape deals with them in the most insensitive
>> manner, makes sure that not only their visas but also passports
>> expire, and then expects them to have the money to get new passports
>> from the Pakistan High Commission, which is most uncooprative. So,
>> like most refugees, they just disappear in the mass of the
>> 'unorganised sector' of the Indian economy, away from the watchful
>> eyes of an Indian state that couldn't care less. Most Pakistani Hindu
>> refugees are from Sindh as another posting on this list shows.
>>
>> At the same time, being Hindus they still have it much easier than,
>> say the Afghan Muslims who continue to flee the same Taliban and
>> continue to pour into India and work in the same unorganised sector.
>> There is of course no question of Muslims from Peshawar fleeing to
>> India despite India having more Muslims than Pakistan. The reason why
>> this causes me some discomfort is because it makes it sound like
>> India
>> is a Hindu country and not a secular country that treats all refugees
>> equally.
>>
>> This discrimination exists within internally displaced refugees in
>> India as Shuddhabrata Sengupta once showed on this list.
>>
>> If you're Tibetan you're god; if you're Bangladeshi Hindu
>> you're just
>> Hindu and thus Indian; if you're Afghan Sikh you will easily get
>> Indian citizenship; if you're Sri Lankan Tamil you will live in
>> abominable conditions in refugee camps and the Tamilians will play
>> politics in your name but never do anything for your plight.
>>
>> I think it is important that India passes a uniform national refugee
>> law and policy and shows compassion towards refugees from all
>> parts of
>> the world equally.
>>
>> I hope you agree with me.
>>
>> best
>> shivam
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Kshmendra Kaul
> <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Versions of the news item reproduced below (from PunjabNewsline)
>>> have
> also
>> appeared in:
>>>
>>> - ZEENEWS "Pak Hindu families seekl India citizenship"
>>>
> http://international.zeenews.com/inner1.asp?aid=203968&sid=HEL
>>>
>>> - DAWN "Fata’s 35 Hindus migrate to India"
>>>
>>
> http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/
> news/pakistan/fatas-35-hindus-migrate-to-india--bi
>>>
>>> Kshmendra
>>>
>>>
>>> "Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India grants Visa"
>>> JAGMOHAN SINGH
>>> Saturday, 07 March 2009
>>>
>>> AMRITSAR: Indian Government has granted one year visa to 35 Hindu
> migrants
>> from Pakistan who faced threat to their lives in Pakistan,
>> particularly in
>> tribal areas. The group including 16 men, 16 females and three
>> children
> had
>> crossed over to india few days back.
>>>
>>> The Pak Hindus narrated their woes to Indian authorities. They
> carried the
>> nightmare, experienced Immediately after they went to Delhi to get
> extension in
>> visa and permission to stay in Amritsar. All the families arrived in
> Amritsar on
>> Saturday after obtaining visa for one year.
>>>
>>> Jagdish Sharma resident of tribal area near Peshawar in Pakistan
> said,
>> “We were living in Pakistan under severe fear psychosis due to the
> domination
>> of strong group of Taliban people who are running parallel
>> Government. In
> such
>> circumstances, Hindus and Sikh families were not safe, especially our
> female
>> members. We preferred to migrate in India, at least here in India
>> we can
> breathe
>> out with peace and calm mind since our families are safe in India”.
>>>
>>> Adding further he said, “We strongly urge the Government of India
> to
>> allow us stay here in India permanently, since we don’t want to go
>> back
> in the
>> hellish atmosphere where there is no life security”.
>>>
>>> Jagdish Sharma said, “All the 35 members of four Hindu families
> would
>> never prefer to return to Pakistan. Now we have intention to
>> settle here
>> permanently and expect that Government of India would never
>> disappoint the
>> Pakistan based Hindus who arrived here after being plundered in
> Pakistan”.
>>>
>>> Hardwari Lal resident of Orkzai nearly 180 kilometers from Peshawar
> said,
>> “I was running my grocery shop there which was forcibly took over
>> by the
>> fundamentalist people who also took possession of our entire
>> property.
> Even Sikh
>> Gurdwara (Sikh shrine) as well as Hindu Temples were not safe,
>> since none
> of the
>> priest of respective religions dare to stay there for required
>> necessary
> ritual
>> daily prayers. Pakistan Government has appointed local executive
> magistrates as
>> a care taker for religious shrines in the tribal area of Pakistan”.
>>>
>>> Hardwari said, “We strongly urge the Government of India to do the
>> needful for us so that we could settle down in India and could
>> reestablish
> our
>> business here as there is no chance for us to go back to Pakistan”.
>>>
>>> Rekha a female migrant from Peshawar said, “ We have heaved sigh of
>> relief while reaching on Indian territory, since every morning we
>> were
> observing
>> close encounter to death as life is highly unsecured. My parents were
> always
>> worried about me and my brothers due to domination of fundamentalist
> people.
>> Being a girl I Never went out of my house and remained confined
>> with in
> the four
>> walls of our house. I never got privilege to obtain education,
>> since girls
> were
>> not allowed to attend school in the tribal area of Pakistan”.
>>>
>>> Adding further Rekha said, “There was no life in the tribal area of
>> Pakistan, as there was no liberty for women to move out, if gets
> chance only
>> in Burqa (clad) while covering face and body with black gown. In
>> Pakistan
>> Taliban considers Hindu community very meek and feeble. Numerous
>> Hindu
> families
>> still were languishing in the tribal area of Pakistan as unable to
>> get
> visa for
>> India which they were facing acute hardship. Since for visa
>> everybody has
> to
>> appear before the Indian High Commission and for women it is
>> difficult to
> come
>> out from house to move out from the tribal area”, she quipped.
>>>
>>> http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/15562/40/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> mail at shivamvij dot com
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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Shuddhabrata Sengupta
The Sarai Programme at CSDS
Raqs Media Collective
shuddha at sarai.net
www.sarai.net
www.raqsmediacollective.net
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