[Reader-list] Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India grants Visa

Thu Mar 19 19:21:00 IST 2009

Dear Shivam

It is not ethical of you to ascribe to me views or positions that have not been articulated by me.

I gave no (what you have called) 'policy prescription' for those who enter surreptitiously or overstay their Visas. Did I?

I agreed with you that there should be a uniform policy towards refugees. I qualified that by breaking it up into categories. Those who seek and are granted refugee and those who, by their very definition are not as yet refugees and who ingress into India surreptitiously or  those who overstay their Visa. 

Yes I did say that the 'uniform policy' for one kind should not be the same for the others. So there would be separate 'uniform policies' for all sets. You could disagree with this formulation  instead of losing control over your rationality.

Neither you nor I gave any kind of a  'policy prescription'.

Do you think it is correct on your part to ascribe to me a 'policy prescription' when I have not given any? I did not presume on your behalf any characteristics of your desired 'uniform policy', why should you presume on my behalf the characteristics of my differentiated 'uniform policies'

I did not even say that those who's ingress is surreptitious or those who Overstay should not be granted refugee status. Did I? 

But let me say this, it would be sheer idiocy and stupidity for any country to have one single 'policy prescription' that is identically and equally applicable to a) those who seek and are granted refuge; b) those who enter the country surreptitiously and c) those who overstay their Visa

It would be equally idiotic and stupid for anyone to suggest that it be so.

Kshmendra  

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, shivam at kafila.org <shivam at kafila.org> wrote:

From: shivam at kafila.org <shivam at kafila.org>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India grants Visa
To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
Cc: "Shivam V" <lists at shivamvij.com>, "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 9:17 PM

Dear Kshmendra,

You say, "If it is suggested so, I will not agree that such a policy
should also apply to those who's ingress into India is in a
surreptitious manner or those who overstay the period allowed in their
Visa."

Now Tibetans cross into India "surreptitiously" - that is without
visas, escaping the watchful eyes of Chinese forces, bribing Nepali
forces, and then they finally reach after a long journey in which
people even lose lives. So according to your policy prescription you
are against Tibetans being given refugee status, right?

Secondly, the Pakistani Hindus come to India on short-term tourist
visas which, as I mentioned, expire long before Indian red tape gives
them Indian citizenship. So according to your policy prescription,
Pakistani Hindus whose visas have expired should be deported? There
must be at least fifty thousand such individuals in Indian
territory... you must request Aditya Raj Kaul to carry out a campaign
to deport them.

best
shivam

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> Dear Shivam
>
> I will agree with you that India should follow a uniform policy towards
refugees from any part of the world who seek refuge and are granted refuge.
>
> If it is suggested so, I will not agree that such a policy should
also apply to those who's ingress into India is in a surreptitious manner
or those who overstay the period allowed in their Visa.
>
> You remarked on it in passing, but I would also agree that a uniform
policy should be followed towards all Internally Displaced citizens of India.
>
> The sad part however is that people are driven by circumstances to
disconnect themselves from their own environment and take refuge in an alien
one.
>
> The magnitude of the desperation is the most significant in those who
leave their own country and seek refuge in another country where they have none
of the rights of a citizen. They know it and yet they make the choice.
>
> But the same character of desperation also bears upon those who find it
impossible to continue living in the land of their forefathers, the land of
their heritage and culture and the land where they have the psychological
support of being amongst family and friends and render themselves Internally
Displaced.
>
> The Internal Displacement to some degree forced upon people by forces of
Nature resulting in floods, famines, tsunamis, earthquakes can be understood.
>
> It is the Internal Displacement of people due to factors brought about
by Political, Social, Religious, Corporate machinations that I find most
disturbing. The State has failed in it's duty towards the citizens in such
instances.
>
> I recognise, in some ways the characteristics of such (not by forces
of Nature) Internal Displacement in the thousands who migrate from villages to
towns to cities. The State has failed them.
>
> It is therefore equally and perhaps more important in my eyes that the
State provides such a protective environment for it's citizens that they
are not 'driven' to seek refuge in another country, or to be rendered
Internally Displaced in their own country.
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
> --- On Tue, 3/17/09, Shivam V <lists at shivamvij.com> wrote:
>
> From: Shivam V <lists at shivamvij.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India
grants Visa
> To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 1:01 AM
>
> Dear Kshmendra,
>
> Thanks for posting this and bringing our attention to it. However,
> there is nothing unusual about it. Pakistani Hindu migration to India
> continues on an almost daily basis. I once did a story on them. I went
> to the Bhati mines area of Chattarpur in Delhi and met a family of 11
> that had arrived just two days ago. There are at least a hundred
> thousand Pakistani Hindus in Rajasthan, and with some leadership and
> organisation some of them have been getting Indian citizenship. This
> shows how the "long" Partition "continues" in the most
> literal sense
> of the word "continues". This is just like the Partition
continues
> over the unsettled dispute over the Kashmir Valley and the constant,
> complaining allegations about "Bangaldeshis" who come to India,
the
> corresponding issues of "vote bank politics" and them
'snatching
> away'
> jobs from Bihari labourers.
>
> Firstly, the situtaion of the Pakistani Hindu refugees in India is
> very bad. Indian red tape deals with them in the most insensitive
> manner, makes sure that not only their visas but also passports
> expire, and then expects them to have the money to get new passports
> from the Pakistan High Commission, which is most uncooprative. So,
> like most refugees, they just disappear in the mass of the
> 'unorganised sector' of the Indian economy, away from the watchful
> eyes of an Indian state that couldn't care less. Most Pakistani Hindu
> refugees are from Sindh as another posting on this list shows.
>
> At the same time, being Hindus they still have it much easier than,
> say the Afghan Muslims who continue to flee the same Taliban and
> continue to pour into India and work in the same unorganised sector.
> There is of course no question of Muslims from Peshawar fleeing to
> India despite India having more Muslims than Pakistan. The reason why
> this causes me some discomfort is because it makes it sound like India
> is a Hindu country and not a secular country that treats all refugees
> equally.
>
> This discrimination exists within internally displaced refugees in
> India as Shuddhabrata Sengupta once showed on this list.
>
> If you're Tibetan you're god; if you're Bangladeshi Hindu
> you're just
> Hindu and thus Indian; if you're Afghan Sikh you will easily get
> Indian citizenship; if you're Sri Lankan Tamil you will live in
> abominable conditions in refugee camps and the Tamilians will play
> politics in your name but never do anything for your plight.
>
> I think it is important that India passes a uniform national refugee
> law and policy and shows compassion towards refugees from all parts of
> the world equally.
>
> I hope you agree with me.
>
> best
> shivam
>
> On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Kshmendra Kaul
<kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Versions of the news item reproduced below (from PunjabNewsline) have
also
> appeared in:
> >
> > - ZEENEWS "Pak Hindu families seekl India citizenship"
> >     
http://international.zeenews.com/inner1.asp?aid=203968&sid=HEL
> >
> > - DAWN "Fata’s 35 Hindus migrate to India"
> >
>
 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/fatas-35-hindus-migrate-to-india--bi
> >
> > Kshmendra
> >
> >
> > "Hindu families in Pakistan feel scared, India grants Visa"
> > JAGMOHAN SINGH
> > Saturday, 07 March 2009
> >
> > AMRITSAR: Indian Government has granted one year visa to 35 Hindu
migrants
> from Pakistan who faced threat to their lives in Pakistan, particularly in
> tribal areas. The group including 16 men, 16 females and three children
had
> crossed over to india few days back.
> >
> > The Pak Hindus narrated their woes to Indian authorities. They
carried the
> nightmare, experienced Immediately after they went to Delhi to get
extension in
> visa and permission to stay in Amritsar. All the families arrived in
Amritsar on
> Saturday after obtaining visa for one year.
> >
> > Jagdish Sharma resident of tribal area near Peshawar in Pakistan
said,
> “We were living in Pakistan under severe fear psychosis due to the
domination
> of strong group of Taliban people who are running parallel Government. In
such
> circumstances, Hindus and Sikh families were not safe, especially our
female
> members. We preferred to migrate in India, at least here in India we can
breathe
> out with peace and calm mind since our families are safe in India”.
> >
> > Adding further he said, “We strongly urge the Government of India
to
> allow us stay here in India permanently, since we don’t want to go back
in the
> hellish atmosphere where there is no life security”.
> >
> > Jagdish Sharma said, “All the 35 members of four Hindu families
would
> never prefer to return to Pakistan. Now we have intention to settle here
> permanently and expect that Government of India would never disappoint the
> Pakistan based Hindus who arrived here after being plundered in
Pakistan”.
> >
> > Hardwari Lal resident of Orkzai nearly 180 kilometers from Peshawar
said,
> “I was running my grocery shop there which was forcibly took over by the
> fundamentalist people who also took possession of our entire property.
Even Sikh
> Gurdwara (Sikh shrine) as well as Hindu Temples were not safe, since none
of the
> priest of respective religions dare to stay there for required necessary
ritual
> daily prayers. Pakistan Government has appointed local executive
magistrates as
> a care taker for religious shrines in the tribal area of Pakistan”.
> >
> > Hardwari said, “We strongly urge the Government of India to do the
> needful for us so that we could settle down in India and could reestablish
our
> business here as there is no chance for us to go back to Pakistan”.
> >
> > Rekha a female migrant from Peshawar said, “ We have heaved sigh of
> relief while reaching on Indian territory, since every morning we were
observing
> close encounter to death as life is highly unsecured. My parents were
always
> worried about me and my brothers due to domination of fundamentalist
people.
> Being a girl I Never went out of my house and remained confined with in
the four
> walls of our house. I never got privilege to obtain education, since girls
were
> not allowed to attend school in the tribal area of Pakistan”.
> >
> > Adding further Rekha said, “There was no life in the tribal area of
> Pakistan, as there was no liberty for   women to move out, if gets
chance only
> in Burqa (clad) while covering face and body with black gown. In Pakistan
> Taliban considers Hindu community very meek and feeble. Numerous Hindu
families
> still were languishing in the tribal area of Pakistan as unable to get
visa for
> India which they were facing acute hardship. Since for visa everybody has
to
> appear before the Indian High Commission and for women it is difficult to
come
> out from house to move out from the tribal area”, she quipped.
> >
> > http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/15562/40/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> --
> mail at shivamvij dot com
>
>
>
>
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