[Reader-list] APJ letter

[Jeebesh]

Word of the Day for Wednesday, May 13, 2009

abnegate \AB-nih-gayt\, transitive verb:

1. To refuse or deny oneself; to reject; to renounce.
2. To give up (rights, claims, etc.); to surrender; to relinquish.

An exaggerated veneration for an exceptional individual will allow  
worshippers "to abnegate responsibility, looking to the great man for  
salvation or for fulfilment" that we should work out for ourselves.
-- Christina Hardyment, "The intoxicating allure of great men" review  
of Heroes: Saviors Traitors and Supermen by Lucy Hughes-Hallett,  
Independent, October 19, 2004
Adrift and divided, lacking intelligent leadership from the White  
House, the members of Congress have chosen to abnegate their  
constitutional responsibility in the hope that the blunt, crude  
mechanism of Gramm-Rudman will compensate for the failure of political  
will.
-- Evan Thomas, "Look Ma! No hands!'", Time, December 23, 1985
Feed no more blossoms
to the wind, abnegate the constellations,
negate the sea and what is left
of your world? What is left then?
-- Alessandra Lynch, "Excommunication", American Poetry Review, July/ 
August 2003
Abnegate is a back-formation from abnegation, from Late Latin  
abnegatio, abnegation-, from Latin abnegare, "to refuse; to refute,"  
from ab-, "away" + negare, "to deny."

Dictionary.com Entry and Pronunciation for abnegate

On 13-May-09, at 3:24 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote:

> Vedavati jee,
>
> Thanks to people like you. even if farmers, diamond workers, road  
> builders,
> tribals are suffering, you expect them to pay obeisance to a flag. you
> definately are a nationalist. you are jingoist, a fascist. you out  
> there to
> settle scores with anyone that goes against your ideals. shame on  
> you and
> your ideas about nationhood.
>
> -anupam
>
> On 5/13/09, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Rakeshji,
>>
>> Firstly,
>> Dr. Kalam is a great scientist and the most loved & admired  
>> president of
>> India. If you feel that BJP supported him for presidentship because  
>> he is a
>> Muslim then I am sorry to say so but 'You are mentally bankrupt'.  I
>> remember, Sayed Shahabuddin -socalled leader of a socalled secular  
>> party had
>> published an article in Indian Express stating that 'Dr. Kalam can  
>> not be
>> considered as Muslim'. (Naturally because Dr. Kalam is a truely  
>> secular
>> person ) Thus it can be proved that supporting Dr. Kalam can not be  
>> the act
>> of Muslim appeasement.
>>
>> In your  mail I find many hidden examples of Muslim appeasement.
>>
>> e.g. You feel Terrorism can't be countered by Nationalism. Is it  
>> because
>> terrorists are Muslims.? If so. then is it not an act of appeasement?
>> I must say our Fauji bhai who are guarding our country for 24 hrs  
>> are fools
>> because they are making supreme sacrifices for ungrateful seculars  
>> like you.
>> Instead they should invite terrorists who happen to be Pakistanis  
>> (hence
>> Muslims) to invade our country. What must have prompted Sandeep  
>> Unnikrishnan
>> and many more to sacrifice their lives for this country? Do you  
>> think it was
>> 'Internationalism?'
>>
>> You say, Terrorism can only be countered down at the roots. Can you
>> elaborate your point? Lets take example of Kasab - why did he kill  
>> so many
>> Indians? What is the root cause?
>> I am sure you will give me examples of 'Ayodhya' and "Gujrat'. which
>> happened in 1992 and 2002 (in which  200 Hindus have also died  
>> which you
>> would like to ignore) .
>> I have many times heard these secular talks that 'Ayodhya'  and  
>> 'Gujrat'
>> are the reasons behind terrorism and bomb-blasts. In that case I  
>> would like
>> to remind all seculars of 1000 years of Muslim rule in which crores  
>> of
>> Hindus were converted forcibly,   killed,  
>> plundered...............That was
>> not enough for them hence they  partitioned this ancient country in  
>> 1947,
>> that time 2 crore Hindus were thrown out of  Pakistan, lakhs of  
>> Hindus were
>> killed, I would not like to even mention the plight of Hindu women  
>> folks.
>> If we decide to apply same 'secular' logic then don't you think these
>> reasons are more than enough for Hindus to destroy whole Pakistan?
>>
>> Nothing can be more important than nationalism. And if Indian  
>> citizens are
>> really sensible,
>> then they should never vote for those parties who are ready to make  
>> any
>> sort of compromise on nationalism ( ofcourse under the pretext of  
>> practising
>> secularism).
>>
>> Vedavati
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 13/5/09, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] APJ letter
>> To: "bipin" <aliens at dataone.in>
>> Cc: "sarai-list" <>
>> Date: Wednesday, 13 May, 2009, 3:38 PM
>>
>>
>> Dear Bipin jee (and all)
>>
>> Let me clarify certain points and also add further more.
>>
>> First of all, sorry as I had stated that Kalam jee had chosen
>> president by the BJP. Yes he is chosen by the electoral college, so I
>> am sorry about that. Having said that, I can't forget the conditions
>> under which the BJP decided to support him (his name was first thrown
>> into the ring by the Samajwadi Party, but nobody talked about that
>> when the BJP supported him). We had had Godhra and the post-Godhra
>> pogrom, and a brilliant way of Muslim appeasement was practiced by  
>> the
>> BJP and the then-ruling NDA by introducing his name at a time, when
>> they were confused about Krishna kant and P.C.Alexander themselves.
>> (And the Congress further proved it is equal to this task by
>> supporting his candidature)
>>
>> Secondly, Bipin jee, I can understand your problem. For you, whatever
>> supports your point is relevant, rest all is irrelevant. Waise if you
>> felt my arguments were irrelevant, you should not have replied back  
>> at
>> all. Probably it struck you too strongly. My sympathies in that case.
>>
>> Thirdly, unlike your belief, terrorism can't be countered with
>> nationalism (it's like saying that terror can be struck with
>> counter-terror, remembering Shuddha jee's post here). Terrorism can
>> only be countered down at the roots. Nationalism is not what its root
>> is. Israel has been trying to eradicate terrorism since the last 50
>> years, without success (and Israel is more nationalistic than India).
>> And now we will have the Modis and Advanis doing the same. Forget the
>> root cause, you have never even spoken about reforming our police and
>> judiciary and their functioning to see that at least such cases are
>> solved at the earliest in a proper manner.
>>
>> For your kind information, Tagore jee was also against nationalism,
>> and he even argued with Gandhi about it. (Gandhi had said that
>> nationalism is ok if it leads to internationalism, Tagore said this  
>> is
>> crap). And we all know what happened to Japan during the Second World
>> War which it joined in the name of nationalism. Not going far, go and
>> find about the Hirakud dam oustees who were asked to sacrifice their
>> land for a 'nationalist' cause.
>>
>> Fourthly, I am taking this speech into consideration along with his
>> previous speeches which he made as a president, when he used to say
>> that India has to be turned into a developed nation by 2020. And in
>> Bhopal, he even claimed we have to become a superpower (he visited
>> Bhopal around Independence Day in 2002, if I am not wrong). May be
>> it's not written in his speech, but looking at the kind of profession
>> he was in and the goals he has stated, he believes in nationalism  
>> like
>> you, and so such views are not surprising.
>>
>> My problem is that we all know how the US behaved as a superpower. So
>> I don't wish to see India doing that.
>>
>> Fifthly, the US is not just a financial superpower sir. It's a
>> military superpower too. No nation in the world has got the kind of
>> arms, and technical superiority in defence arms which the US has,
>> although other nations are trying to achieve that. It's on this basis
>> that it undertook a campaign in Iraq, virtually bulldozing all
>> opposition against this even in the UN. And looking at our record in
>> other areas, I dont' see any reason why we would behave differently
>> from them if we were in their position.
>>
>> Sixthly, the kind of development paradigm we are undertaking today  
>> has
>> to be debated. Neither Kalam nor you have mentioned what is this
>> development paradigm they believe in. If it's the current paradigm
>> which has made the US developed, I am against it as it would only  
>> lead
>> to destruction on a global scale involving death of millions of
>> innocent people and further breeding of terrorism. Therefore, it is
>> better that we first of all discuss about that rather than tripping
>> over people voting on development.
>>
>> Seventhly, if you think people vote for development, go and find out
>> what that development means for them. Probably you can also be for a
>> shock, if you find that Dalits in many parts think development just
>> means that no upper caste man attacks their women. They don't want
>> education, health or even good roads, they just want security. And
>> security in itself is development for them! So traditionally in  
>> India,
>> people have voted for development and continue to do so, it's just
>> that the meaning of development is different for different people.
>>
>> Eighth. First we should look at ourselves before pointing fingers at
>> others (Said by Mahatma Gandhi, Jesus Christ, and probably so many
>> others before I state this here again). The Indian state has  
>> unleashed
>> injustice on so many people, be it through fake encounters, through
>> prostitution, through lack of implementing prohibition, through
>> improper governance and massive corruption, through schemes which
>> ensured mass displacement of people without proper rehabilitation,  
>> and
>> through mechanisms which ensured people didn't get justice at the
>> proper place at the proper time. Moreover, people have not been able
>> to lead their lives through dignity as well. What about that? Before
>> looking at Taliban and Pakistan, let us look at our own state
>> apparatus.
>>
>> Ninth. You say that it's not the state's responsibility. I believe it
>> is. The Indian state destroyed mechanisms and norms which had
>> developed in our villages on a self-decided basis there itself,
>> regarding how are the resources to be managed and consumed, how is
>> agriculture to be carried out, how will water be saved for the dry
>> summer months, and so on. The Indian state penetrated each and every
>> area where villages had been governed on a self-government basis, and
>> now all these areas have seen no development due to massive  
>> corruption
>> and centralization of powers, rather than proper decentralization.
>>
>> Therefore, it's not me, but the very Indian state, which has accepted
>> that it's the state's responsibility to provide for its citizens. And
>> when it fails, I will criticize it, whether you like it or not. If  
>> you
>> think it's wrong, ask the govt. to decentralize the powers and
>> functioning areas so that villages can manage themselves properly  
>> in a
>> more democratic manner. Would be better for the villagers too.
>>
>> Moreover, even going by your logic, if industrialization, R & D
>> development and infrastructure development have to be undertaken, the
>> policies for these are formulated by the govt, and hence indirectly  
>> or
>> directly, it's the Indian state which is responsible for the plight  
>> of
>> its citizens.
>>
>> Sir, you have pronounced my ideas as irrelevant. I would not do that.
>> I respect people's views. So, let others decide whether your ideas  
>> are
>> irrelevant or not. Same for mine as well.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Rakesh
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