[Reader-list] Election Forecast

Sun May 17 12:29:04 IST 2009

Thank Sree Ram, BJP didn't come to power, otherwise Aditya Raj Kaul Ji would
have come personally with a sword or trishul to deal with with people like
Inder Salim Ji and other non Sangh parivar people in this list

On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:45 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>wrote:

> seems Inder Salim has been working in a navratan oil company and tired of
> the left trade union :P How else would he have so much information about
> Advaniji ?
>
> Don't worry Inder Sali, you will have your job; Modi is there still to take
> care of you.
>
> Manali is a far dream still for you.
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > better than gratuity, ADvani ji might promote Nano car of Tata Ji
> >
> > and some advertise NAVRATTAN OIL,
> >
> >  i am sure  he will outwit AmitabBachan on that
> >
> > and earn more bucks, to  enjoy trout fish with red wine in Manali with
> >  VajPAYEE Ji
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:27 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Great show by Congress .....
> > >
> > > However the best thing about this election was the worst performance of
> > Left
> > > in last 40 years.
> > >
> > > Advani Ji now needs a peaceful retirement and perhaps may be rewarded
> > with
> > > Gratuity and other benefits.....
> > >
> > > Pawan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> Dear all
> > >>
> > >> I had gone out, so apologies (if required) for the delay.
> > >>
> > >> Unlike Anupam jee, I don't have problems with people changing their
> > views
> > >> provided they stick to it. So I won't comment on that.
> > >>
> > >> What I will comment on are some interesting thoughts. First of all,
> > India
> > >> has a parliamentary system where people choose their representatives
> on
> > the
> > >> first by post principle, and there are a number of factors at play.
> What
> > is
> > >> certainly not a factor (neither in 2004 nor in 2009 as CSDS surveys
> done
> > by
> > >> Yogendra Yadav repeatedly indicate) is the issue of the Prime
> Minister.
> > >>
> > >> Forget Advani or Manmohan Singh or Rahul Gandhi or Narendra Modi. Even
> > if
> > >> Lord Krishna, Lord Ram, Prophet Muhammad or Jesus Christ were to stand
> > for
> > >> the post of Prime Minister, it would hardly make an effect, simply
> > because
> > >> people don't vote for personalities as PM. The major issues before
> > people
> > >> are concerned with their livelihood, be it 'roti, kapda and makan',
> > water,
> > >> health (this means a good hospital with working people and working
> > >> equipments in the village or nearby places), good connection to cities
> > >> through roads, education, and in this particular issue, two more
> issues
> > >> were
> > >> important: inflation and security.
> > >>
> > >> So actually, the BJP did have issues to fight with: inflation and
> > >> terrorism.
> > >> Except that BJP doesn't have a great record in them either.
> > >>
> > >> As far as inflation is concerned, I can only remind of the 1998
> > elections
> > >> in
> > >> Delhi, Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh, where BJP suffered a 440-KV shock
> > on
> > >> losing state elections. And as for terrorism, we all know how they
> > fared.
> > >> The Kandahar fiasco, the Parliament attack, the Godhra incident (I
> > mention
> > >> this here because the Gujarat BJP unit repeatedly mentioned this as an
> > >> ISI-sponsored attack, so they can clarify on this. I mention it as an
> > >> intelligence failure), the Akshardham temple attack, the Raghunath
> > temple
> > >> attack, the bomb blasts in Mulund and Ghatkopar, and so on. So before
> > >> throwing stones at others, the BJP should look at its' own shallow
> > record
> > >> with respect to terror in the past.
> > >>
> > >> And on top of all this, then they have the foolishness in them to say
> > that
> > >> L.K. Advani is a strong leader. And to indicate this, they had posters
> > >> showing Advani clenching his fists! Great! That way we could have put
> > one
> > >> of
> > >> the wrestlers who had won a bronze medal for us in Olympics 2008 as
> the
> > PM
> > >> candidate! Nobody could have been stronger than that!
> > >>
> > >> Strength doesn't come by repeatedly saying that 'I am strong'. A
> person
> > who
> > >> is strong will never say that about himself; it's others who say that
> > about
> > >> him. Here we had Advani shooting off his own mouth about how strong he
> > was.
> > >> And people knew how to respond.
> > >>
> > >> Secondly, contrary to your statements Vedavati jee, the BJP hasn't
> done
> > >> that
> > >> well as expected. In MP, it was expected to win more than 20 seats.
> And
> > >> Congress was not certainly expecting 10 seats which it won there. As
> for
> > >> Rajasthan, BJP has been wiped out when compared to last election. Only
> > >> Chhatisgarh and Gujarat are the states where BJP has done better than
> > >> previous times, in addition to Jharkhand of course.
> > >>
> > >> Thirdly, you are right. BJP should have expanded their base. But base
> > could
> > >> have been expanded by throwing away Hindutva (which ironically brings
> to
> > >> them supporters like you but alienates many), and trying to become a
> > >> right-centrist party. People would have had no problems if BJP had no
> > trust
> > >> on Pakistan, wanted India to become a super-power, and had stated that
> > they
> > >> weren't embarassed on their Hindu roots.
> > >>
> > >> Instead, the BJP just seems hell bent on attacking minorities where
> and
> > >> when
> > >> they can (Kandhamal and Karnataka being best examples) and then wants
> > >> Muslims and Christians to vote for them! How do they expect a Muslim
> > woman
> > >> to vote for them when under their reign, she was raped in the name of
> > 'Jai
> > >> Shree Ram' by activists related to the larger parivar to which the BJP
> > >> belongs?
> > >>
> > >> Similarly on the issue of appeasement. It is right that the Congress
> and
> > >> others have practiced Muslim appeasement. But does this mean Muslims
> > should
> > >> be punished? When Muslims haven't progressed, then it's the fault of
> the
> > >> Congress. How are they being then 'pampered'? Vote bank politics is
> > >> actually
> > >> to disadvantage of Muslims, and the BJP should have come to their
> rescue
> > by
> > >> providing them development. Instead, the BJP gave them post-Godhra as
> > gift.
> > >>
> > >> Fourth. Can Bipin jee inform me (or anybody else for that matter) as
> to
> > the
> > >> proceedings under NDA which point to RTI? I would be glad to know.
> > >>
> > >> Fifth. Swathi jee, I think you raised two vital points. I agree with
> you
> > >> that it's not the Congress or the Left (do read this Bipin jee, this
> is
> > for
> > >> you too) which brought either the NREGA or the RTI, it's the social
> > >> movements which brought them. And I appreciate the courage they showed
> > in
> > >> their movement and the pressure they exerted, which was accepted by
> the
> > >> Left
> > >> at very late stage, and finally this act was introduced. One must
> never
> > >> forget the kind of pressure exerted by the Times of India-Economic
> > >> Times-Ambani-English mainstream media-their elitist friends combine,
> to
> > >> ensure the NREGA never got passed.
> > >>
> > >> But the larger point also remains that this govt did pass it. Would
> the
> > NDA
> > >> have ever passed it? You know better than me what the answer to that
> > would
> > >> be. Therefore, we must accept their small contribution to getting this
> > act
> > >> passed and appreciate it, though the first credit to it lies with all
> > those
> > >> who fought tooth and nail in the first place to get the act passed.
> > >>
> > >> And Bipin jee, the NREGA was brought through a social movement. Better
> > go
> > >> and find about it rather than cribbing about policies you don't know a
> > >> thing
> > >> about. And as for your infrastructural development, the people of
> India
> > >> would want NREGA first rather than the Golden Quadrilateral.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The second point Swathi jee has raised is about an elected PM.
> > Personally,
> > >> I
> > >> would have liked Manmohan Singh jee to fight the election and win it.
> > That
> > >> would have silenced many people who always look upon him as the
> 'stooge
> > of
> > >> Sonia'. However, unlike others, I wouldn't feel so bad about it. The
> > larger
> > >> issue is always the livelihood of people, and while Sonia may not have
> > the
> > >> responsibilities of the PM, she has the responsibilities of ensuring
> her
> > >> party wins elections. Therefore, even if the PM doesn't listen, she
> has
> > to
> > >> listen to the voice of India, as she had to in the case of NREGA and
> > RTI.
> > >>
> > >> Therefore, I don't worry much whether Manmohan is elected or not. I
> > though
> > >> have another reason as to why a PM should be elected.
> > >>
> > >> When a PM like say Vajpayee gets elected and then becomes PM, he knows
> > the
> > >> ways and means to win elections. And therefore he equally knows when
> to
> > >> start something, where to stop (why, where and when), where to set
> > agendas
> > >> and where to start working upon them. Manmohan I don't think has that
> > >> political experience an elected PM have to manage his allies. This is
> > clear
> > >> from the way he reacted at different times to the nuclear deal. His
> > >> reactions wouldn't have changed so much had he been an elected PM.
> > Perhaps
> > >> he could have handled the Left better in that case.
> > >>
> > >> But again this is only my speculation. It may be true, or it may be
> > false.
> > >>
> > >> And democracy is not about elections. It is about giving rights to
> > citizens
> > >> and ensure that they are indeed actually provided those rights. So an
> > >> elected PM or not is not a big issue.
> > >>
> > >> What is are the rights of people to secure their livelihood.
> > >>
> > >> If the BJP gains this huge lesson from this election, I would be the
> > most
> > >> happy person on this planet. And my frustration at this not happening
> is
> > >> what made me write in a nasty way, for which I am sorry. I would not
> > repeat
> > >> that again.
> > >>
> > >> And if the BJP doesn't learn it, then we need another party to come at
> > >> centre to fight against Congress and displace BJP from its pole.
> > >>
> > >> And finally, the last word from one of my friends who also happens to
> be
> > a
> > >> member of this list:
> > >>
> > >> The BJP lost because the revenues obtained through growth are spent
> only
> > to
> > >> further growth. The Congress won because it spent partially the
> revenues
> > >> obtained through growth to bring up the poor to above-subsistence
> level
> > and
> > >> contributed in some measure to equitable development in this manner.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Regards
> > >>
> > >> Rakesh
> > >> _________________________________________
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> > >>
> > > _________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com
> > _________________________________________
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Aditya Raj Kaul
> _________________________________________
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>