[Reader-list] Election Forecast

Mon May 18 12:24:29 IST 2009

bharat is a secular nation only because hindus are in majority. will it remain the same if muslims outnumber hindus? see the condition of minorities in pakistan and bangladesh. 
today muslims are in minority in our country hence they are talking about secularism are they not speaking in different language in kashmir?

ram mandir has to be built in bharat only it can't be built in pakistan.
stop this hindu bashing under the pretext of secularism.

vedavati

--- On Mon, 18/5/09, Santhosh Kumar <santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Santhosh Kumar <santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Election Forecast
To: "Vedavati Jogi" <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
Cc: Date: Monday, 18 May, 2009, 2:00 PM

Dear Vedavati Ji,

I am not enemy to any body and do not want to be at any time.

And I am sure all Hindus are not same.
And i definitely find huge difference between a North Indian Hindu and a Kerala Hindu.
I, brought up as a Hindu in Kerala, definitely do not like to be part of your Idiosyncrasies and baggages of hatred. (Unfortunately a section of Kerala hindus are now subscribing to.)

We, in Kerala, have a history of more than 3000 years of interacting with different, different people from all over the world and understanding and assimilating those cultures.
Even accepting many of them into our society, both for good and bad.
i would like to be part of that tradition, rather than very parochial, hate trading Pan Indian Hindu identity now proposed and propagated by Sangh parivar and people like you.

Thanks for identifying me as a secular one, which i would not dare to do myself because of the responsibilities it bring in.

Whether it is a "Hindu Bharat" or "Muslimstan", I would find both unliviable and suffocating. I do not want both.

respect and regards,

Santhosh

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com> wrote:

santoshji,

your mail shows only hindu can be the enemy of hindu 
i am sure bharat will be muslimstan very soon.

thanks to seculars like you in this nation.

vedavati

--- On Sun, 17/5/09, Santhosh Kumar <santhosh.kanipayur at gmail..com> wrote:

From: Santhosh Kumar <santhosh.kanipayur at gmail..com>

Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Election Forecast
To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
Cc: "sarai list" <>
Date: Sunday, 17 May, 2009, 2:59 PM

Thank Sree Ram, BJP didn't come to power, otherwise Aditya Raj Kaul Ji would
have come personally with a sword or trishul to deal with with people like
Inder Salim Ji and other non Sangh parivar people in this list

On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:45 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>wrote:

> seems Inder Salim has been working in a navratan oil company and tired of
> the left trade union :P How else would he have so much information about
> Advaniji ?
>
> Don't worry Inder Sali, you will have your job; Modi is there still to take
> care of you.
>
> Manali is a far dream still for you.
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > better than gratuity, ADvani ji might promote Nano car of Tata Ji
> >
> > and some advertise NAVRATTAN OIL,
> >
> >  i am sure  he will outwit AmitabBachan on that
> >
> > and earn more bucks, to  enjoy trout fish with red wine in Manali with
> >  VajPAYEE Ji
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:27 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Great show by Congress .....
> > >
> > > However the best thing about this election was the worst performance of
> > Left
> > > in last 40 years.
> > >
> > > Advani Ji now needs a peaceful retirement and perhaps may be rewarded
> > with
> > > Gratuity and other benefits.....
> > >
> > > Pawan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> > >

> > >> Dear all
> > >>
> > >> I had gone out, so apologies (if required) for the delay.
> > >>
> > >> Unlike Anupam jee, I don't have problems with people changing their
> > views
> > >> provided they stick to it. So I won't comment on that.
> > >>
> > >> What I will comment on are some interesting thoughts. First of all,
> > India
> > >> has a parliamentary system where people choose their representatives
> on
> > the
> > >> first by post principle, and there are a number of factors at play.
> What
> > is
> > >> certainly not a factor (neither in 2004 nor in 2009 as CSDS surveys
> done
> > by
> > >> Yogendra Yadav repeatedly indicate) is the issue of the Prime
> Minister.
> > >>
> > >> Forget Advani or Manmohan Singh or Rahul Gandhi or Narendra Modi. Even
> > if
> > >> Lord Krishna, Lord Ram, Prophet Muhammad or Jesus Christ were to stand
> > for
> > >> the post of Prime Minister, it would hardly make an effect, simply
> > because
> > >> people don't vote for personalities as PM. The major issues before
> > people
> > >> are concerned with their livelihood, be it 'roti, kapda and makan',
> > water,
> > >> health (this means a good hospital with working people and working
> > >> equipments in the village or nearby places), good connection to cities
> > >> through roads, education, and in this particular issue, two more
> issues
> > >> were
> > >> important: inflation and security.
> > >>
> > >> So actually, the BJP did have issues to fight with: inflation and
> > >> terrorism.
> > >> Except that BJP doesn't have a great record in them either.
> > >>
> > >> As far as inflation is concerned, I can only remind of the 1998
> > elections
> > >> in
> > >> Delhi, Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh, where BJP suffered a 440-KV shock
> > on
> > >> losing state elections. And as for terrorism, we all know how they
> > fared.
> > >> The Kandahar fiasco, the Parliament attack, the Godhra incident (I
> > mention
> > >> this here because the Gujarat BJP unit repeatedly mentioned this as an
> > >> ISI-sponsored attack, so they can clarify on this. I mention it as an
> > >> intelligence failure), the Akshardham temple attack, the Raghunath
> > temple
> > >> attack, the bomb blasts in Mulund and Ghatkopar, and so on. So before
> > >> throwing stones at others, the BJP should look at its' own shallow
> > record
> > >> with respect to terror in the past.
> > >>
> > >> And on top of all this, then they have the foolishness in them to say
> > that
> > >> L.K. Advani is a strong leader. And to indicate this, they had posters
> > >> showing Advani clenching his fists! Great! That way we could have put
> > one
> > >> of
> > >> the wrestlers who had won a bronze medal for us in Olympics 2008 as
> the
> > PM
> > >> candidate! Nobody could have been stronger than that!
> > >>
> > >> Strength doesn't come by repeatedly saying that 'I am strong'. A
> person
> > who
> > >> is strong will never say that about himself; it's others who say that
> > about
> > >> him. Here we had Advani shooting off his own mouth about how strong he
> > was.
> > >> And people knew how to respond.
> > >>
> > >> Secondly, contrary to your statements Vedavati jee, the BJP hasn't
> done
> > >> that
> > >> well as expected. In MP, it was expected to win more than 20 seats.
> And
> > >> Congress was not certainly expecting 10 seats which it won there. As
> for
> > >> Rajasthan, BJP has been wiped out when compared to last election. Only
> > >> Chhatisgarh and Gujarat are the states where BJP has done better than
> > >> previous times, in addition to Jharkhand of course.
> > >>
> > >> Thirdly, you are right. BJP should have expanded their base. But base
> > could
> > >> have been expanded by throwing away Hindutva (which ironically brings
> to
> > >> them supporters like you but alienates many), and trying to become a
> > >> right-centrist party. People would have had no problems if BJP had no
> > trust
> > >> on Pakistan, wanted India to become a super-power, and had stated that
> > they
> > >> weren't embarassed on their Hindu roots.
> > >>
> > >> Instead, the BJP just seems hell bent on attacking minorities where
> and
> > >> when
> > >> they can (Kandhamal and Karnataka being best examples) and then wants
> > >> Muslims and Christians to vote for them! How do they expect a Muslim
> > woman
> > >> to vote for them when under their reign, she was raped in the name of
> > 'Jai
> > >> Shree Ram' by activists related to the larger parivar to which the BJP
> > >> belongs?
> > >>
> > >> Similarly on the issue of appeasement. It is right that the Congress
> and
> > >> others have practiced Muslim appeasement.. But does this mean Muslims
> > should
> > >> be punished? When Muslims haven't progressed, then it's the fault of
> the
> > >> Congress. How are they being then 'pampered'? Vote bank politics is
> > >> actually
> > >> to disadvantage of Muslims, and the BJP should have come to their
> rescue
> > by
> > >> providing them development. Instead, the BJP gave them post-Godhra as
> > gift.
> > >>
> > >> Fourth. Can Bipin jee inform me (or anybody else for that matter) as
> to
> > the
> > >> proceedings under NDA which point to RTI? I would be glad to know.
> > >>
> > >> Fifth. Swathi jee, I think you raised two vital points. I agree with
> you
> > >> that it's not the Congress or the Left (do read this Bipin jee, this
> is
> > for
> > >> you too) which brought either the NREGA or the RTI, it's the social
> > >> movements which brought them. And I appreciate the courage they showed
> > in
> > >> their movement and the pressure they exerted, which was accepted by
> the
> > >> Left
> > >> at very late stage, and finally this act was introduced. One must
> never
> > >> forget the kind of pressure exerted by the Times of India-Economic
> > >> Times-Ambani-English mainstream media-their elitist friends combine,
> to
> > >> ensure the NREGA never got passed.
> > >>
> > >> But the larger point also remains that this govt did pass it. Would
> the
> > NDA
> > >> have ever passed it? You know better than me what the answer to that
> > would
> > >> be. Therefore, we must accept their small contribution to getting this
> > act
> > >> passed and appreciate it, though the first credit to it lies with all
> > those
> > >> who fought tooth and nail in the first place to get the act passed.
> > >>
> > >> And Bipin jee, the NREGA was brought through a social movement. Better
> > go
> > >> and find about it rather than cribbing about policies you don't know a
> > >> thing
> > >> about. And as for your infrastructural development, the people of
> India
> > >> would want NREGA first rather than the Golden Quadrilateral.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The second point Swathi jee has raised is about an elected PM.
> > Personally,
> > >> I
> > >> would have liked Manmohan Singh jee to fight the election and win it..
> > That
> > >> would have silenced many people who always look upon him as the
> 'stooge
> > of
> > >> Sonia'. However, unlike others, I wouldn't feel so bad about it. The
> > larger
> > >> issue is always the livelihood of people, and while Sonia may not have
> > the
> > >> responsibilities of the PM, she has the responsibilities of ensuring
> her
> > >> party wins elections. Therefore, even if the PM doesn't listen, she
> has
> > to
> > >> listen to the voice of India, as she had to in the case of NREGA and
> > RTI.
> > >>
> > >> Therefore, I don't worry much whether Manmohan is elected or not. I
> > though
> > >> have another reason as to why a PM should be elected.
> > >>
> > >> When a PM like say Vajpayee gets elected and then becomes PM, he knows
> > the
> > >> ways and means to win elections. And therefore he equally knows when
> to
> > >> start something, where to stop (why, where and when), where to set
> > agendas
> > >> and where to start working upon them. Manmohan I don't think has that
> > >> political experience an elected PM have to manage his allies. This is
> > clear
> > >> from the way he reacted at different times to the nuclear deal. His
> > >> reactions wouldn't have changed so much had he been an elected PM.
> > Perhaps
> > >> he could have handled the Left better in that case.
> > >>
> > >> But again this is only my speculation. It may be true, or it may be
> > false.
> > >>
> > >> And democracy is not about elections. It is about giving rights to
> > citizens
> > >> and ensure that they are indeed actually provided those rights. So an
> > >> elected PM or not is not a big issue.
> > >>
> > >> What is are the rights of people to secure their livelihood.
> > >>
> > >> If the BJP gains this huge lesson from this election, I would be the
> > most
> > >> happy person on this planet. And my frustration at this not happening
> is
> > >> what made me write in a nasty way, for which I am sorry. I would not
> > repeat
> > >> that again.
> > >>
> > >> And if the BJP doesn't learn it, then we need another party to come at
> > >> centre to fight against Congress and displace BJP from its pole.
> > >>
> > >> And finally, the last word from one of my friends who also happens to
> be
> > a
> > >> member of this list:
> > >>
> > >> The BJP lost because the revenues obtained through growth are spent
> only
> > to
> > >> further growth. The Congress won because it spent partially the
> revenues
> > >> obtained through growth to bring up the poor to above-subsistence
> level
> > and

> > >> contributed in some measure to equitable development in this manner.
> > >>
> > >>

> > >> Regards
> > >>
> > >> Rakesh
> > >> _________________________________________
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> > >> Critiques & Collaborations
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> > >> subscribe in the subject header.
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> > >>
> > > _________________________________________
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> > subscribe in the subject header..
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com

> > _________________________________________
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> > Critiques & Collaborations
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Aditya Raj Kaul

> _________________________________________
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>
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