[Reader-list] Election Forecast

Mon May 18 14:33:34 IST 2009

dear vedavati jee,

what's the condition of bangladeshi hindus? can you elaborate? and please do
not say that some temple got burnt or looted by a bunch of miscreants that's
why bangladeshi hindus conditions are worse. because in case if you say
that, than that idea of building a ram mandir is also criminal.

- anupam
On 5/18/09, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> bharat is a secular nation only because hindus are in majority. will it
> remain the same if muslims outnumber hindus? see the condition of minorities
> in pakistan and bangladesh.
> today muslims are in minority in our country hence they are talking about
> secularism are they not speaking in different language in kashmir?
>
> ram mandir has to be built in bharat only it can't be built in pakistan.
> stop this hindu bashing under the pretext of secularism.
>
> vedavati
>
> --- On Mon, 18/5/09, Santhosh Kumar <santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Santhosh Kumar <santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Election Forecast
> To: "Vedavati Jogi" <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Date: Monday, 18 May, 2009, 2:00 PM
>
>
> Dear Vedavati Ji,
>
> I am not enemy to any body and do not want to be at any time.
>
> And I am sure all Hindus are not same.
> And i definitely find huge difference between a North Indian Hindu and a
> Kerala Hindu.
> I, brought up as a Hindu in Kerala, definitely do not like to be part of
> your Idiosyncrasies and baggages of hatred. (Unfortunately a section of
> Kerala hindus are now subscribing to.)
>
> We, in Kerala, have a history of more than 3000 years of interacting with
> different, different people from all over the world and understanding and
> assimilating those cultures.
> Even accepting many of them into our society, both for good and bad.
> i would like to be part of that tradition, rather than very parochial, hate
> trading Pan Indian Hindu identity now proposed and propagated by Sangh
> parivar and people like you.
>
> Thanks for identifying me as a secular one, which i would not dare to do
> myself because of the responsibilities it bring in.
>
> Whether it is a "Hindu Bharat" or "Muslimstan", I would find both
> unliviable and suffocating. I do not want both.
>
> respect and regards,
>
> Santhosh
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> santoshji,
>
> your mail shows only hindu can be the enemy of hindu
> i am sure bharat will be muslimstan very soon.
>
> thanks to seculars like you in this nation.
>
>
> vedavati
>
>
> --- On Sun, 17/5/09, Santhosh Kumar <santhosh.kanipayur at gmail..com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Santhosh Kumar <santhosh.kanipayur at gmail..com>
>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Election Forecast
> To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
> Cc: "sarai list" <>
> Date: Sunday, 17 May, 2009, 2:59 PM
>
>
>
> Thank Sree Ram, BJP didn't come to power, otherwise Aditya Raj Kaul Ji
> would
> have come personally with a sword or trishul to deal with with people like
> Inder Salim Ji and other non Sangh parivar people in this list
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:45 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > seems Inder Salim has been working in a navratan oil company and tired of
> > the left trade union :P How else would he have so much information about
> > Advaniji ?
> >
> > Don't worry Inder Sali, you will have your job; Modi is there still to
> take
> > care of you.
> >
> > Manali is a far dream still for you.
> >
> > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > better than gratuity, ADvani ji might promote Nano car of Tata Ji
> > >
> > > and some advertise NAVRATTAN OIL,
> > >
> > >  i am sure  he will outwit AmitabBachan on that
> > >
> > > and earn more bucks, to  enjoy trout fish with red wine in Manali with
> > >  VajPAYEE Ji
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:27 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > Great show by Congress .....
> > > >
> > > > However the best thing about this election was the worst performance
> of
> > > Left
> > > > in last 40 years.
> > > >
> > > > Advani Ji now needs a peaceful retirement and perhaps may be rewarded
> > > with
> > > > Gratuity and other benefits.....
> > > >
> > > > Pawan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Rakesh Iyer <
> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
>
>
>
> > > >> Dear all
> > > >>
> > > >> I had gone out, so apologies (if required) for the delay.
> > > >>
> > > >> Unlike Anupam jee, I don't have problems with people changing their
> > > views
> > > >> provided they stick to it. So I won't comment on that.
> > > >>
> > > >> What I will comment on are some interesting thoughts. First of all,
> > > India
> > > >> has a parliamentary system where people choose their representatives
> > on
> > > the
> > > >> first by post principle, and there are a number of factors at play.
> > What
> > > is
> > > >> certainly not a factor (neither in 2004 nor in 2009 as CSDS surveys
> > done
> > > by
> > > >> Yogendra Yadav repeatedly indicate) is the issue of the Prime
> > Minister.
> > > >>
> > > >> Forget Advani or Manmohan Singh or Rahul Gandhi or Narendra Modi.
> Even
> > > if
> > > >> Lord Krishna, Lord Ram, Prophet Muhammad or Jesus Christ were to
> stand
> > > for
> > > >> the post of Prime Minister, it would hardly make an effect, simply
> > > because
> > > >> people don't vote for personalities as PM. The major issues before
> > > people
> > > >> are concerned with their livelihood, be it 'roti, kapda and makan',
> > > water,
> > > >> health (this means a good hospital with working people and working
> > > >> equipments in the village or nearby places), good connection to
> cities
> > > >> through roads, education, and in this particular issue, two more
> > issues
> > > >> were
> > > >> important: inflation and security.
> > > >>
> > > >> So actually, the BJP did have issues to fight with: inflation and
> > > >> terrorism.
> > > >> Except that BJP doesn't have a great record in them either.
> > > >>
> > > >> As far as inflation is concerned, I can only remind of the 1998
> > > elections
> > > >> in
> > > >> Delhi, Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh, where BJP suffered a 440-KV
> shock
> > > on
> > > >> losing state elections. And as for terrorism, we all know how they
> > > fared.
> > > >> The Kandahar fiasco, the Parliament attack, the Godhra incident (I
> > > mention
> > > >> this here because the Gujarat BJP unit repeatedly mentioned this as
> an
> > > >> ISI-sponsored attack, so they can clarify on this. I mention it as
> an
> > > >> intelligence failure), the Akshardham temple attack, the Raghunath
> > > temple
> > > >> attack, the bomb blasts in Mulund and Ghatkopar, and so on. So
> before
> > > >> throwing stones at others, the BJP should look at its' own shallow
> > > record
> > > >> with respect to terror in the past.
> > > >>
> > > >> And on top of all this, then they have the foolishness in them to
> say
> > > that
> > > >> L.K. Advani is a strong leader. And to indicate this, they had
> posters
> > > >> showing Advani clenching his fists! Great! That way we could have
> put
> > > one
> > > >> of
> > > >> the wrestlers who had won a bronze medal for us in Olympics 2008 as
> > the
> > > PM
> > > >> candidate! Nobody could have been stronger than that!
> > > >>
> > > >> Strength doesn't come by repeatedly saying that 'I am strong'. A
> > person
> > > who
> > > >> is strong will never say that about himself; it's others who say
> that
> > > about
> > > >> him. Here we had Advani shooting off his own mouth about how strong
> he
> > > was.
> > > >> And people knew how to respond.
> > > >>
> > > >> Secondly, contrary to your statements Vedavati jee, the BJP hasn't
> > done
> > > >> that
> > > >> well as expected. In MP, it was expected to win more than 20 seats.
> > And
> > > >> Congress was not certainly expecting 10 seats which it won there. As
> > for
> > > >> Rajasthan, BJP has been wiped out when compared to last election.
> Only
> > > >> Chhatisgarh and Gujarat are the states where BJP has done better
> than
> > > >> previous times, in addition to Jharkhand of course.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thirdly, you are right. BJP should have expanded their base. But
> base
> > > could
> > > >> have been expanded by throwing away Hindutva (which ironically
> brings
> > to
> > > >> them supporters like you but alienates many), and trying to become a
> > > >> right-centrist party. People would have had no problems if BJP had
> no
> > > trust
> > > >> on Pakistan, wanted India to become a super-power, and had stated
> that
> > > they
> > > >> weren't embarassed on their Hindu roots.
> > > >>
> > > >> Instead, the BJP just seems hell bent on attacking minorities where
> > and
> > > >> when
> > > >> they can (Kandhamal and Karnataka being best examples) and then
> wants
> > > >> Muslims and Christians to vote for them! How do they expect a Muslim
> > > woman
> > > >> to vote for them when under their reign, she was raped in the name
> of
> > > 'Jai
> > > >> Shree Ram' by activists related to the larger parivar to which the
> BJP
> > > >> belongs?
> > > >>
> > > >> Similarly on the issue of appeasement. It is right that the Congress
> > and
> > > >> others have practiced Muslim appeasement.. But does this mean
> Muslims
> > > should
> > > >> be punished? When Muslims haven't progressed, then it's the fault of
> > the
> > > >> Congress. How are they being then 'pampered'? Vote bank politics is
> > > >> actually
> > > >> to disadvantage of Muslims, and the BJP should have come to their
> > rescue
> > > by
> > > >> providing them development. Instead, the BJP gave them post-Godhra
> as
> > > gift.
> > > >>
> > > >> Fourth. Can Bipin jee inform me (or anybody else for that matter) as
> > to
> > > the
> > > >> proceedings under NDA which point to RTI? I would be glad to know.
> > > >>
> > > >> Fifth. Swathi jee, I think you raised two vital points. I agree with
> > you
> > > >> that it's not the Congress or the Left (do read this Bipin jee, this
> > is
> > > for
> > > >> you too) which brought either the NREGA or the RTI, it's the social
> > > >> movements which brought them. And I appreciate the courage they
> showed
> > > in
> > > >> their movement and the pressure they exerted, which was accepted by
> > the
> > > >> Left
> > > >> at very late stage, and finally this act was introduced. One must
> > never
> > > >> forget the kind of pressure exerted by the Times of India-Economic
> > > >> Times-Ambani-English mainstream media-their elitist friends combine,
> > to
> > > >> ensure the NREGA never got passed.
> > > >>
> > > >> But the larger point also remains that this govt did pass it. Would
> > the
> > > NDA
> > > >> have ever passed it? You know better than me what the answer to that
> > > would
> > > >> be. Therefore, we must accept their small contribution to getting
> this
> > > act
> > > >> passed and appreciate it, though the first credit to it lies with
> all
> > > those
> > > >> who fought tooth and nail in the first place to get the act passed.
> > > >>
> > > >> And Bipin jee, the NREGA was brought through a social movement.
> Better
> > > go
> > > >> and find about it rather than cribbing about policies you don't know
> a
> > > >> thing
> > > >> about. And as for your infrastructural development, the people of
> > India
> > > >> would want NREGA first rather than the Golden Quadrilateral.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> The second point Swathi jee has raised is about an elected PM.
> > > Personally,
> > > >> I
> > > >> would have liked Manmohan Singh jee to fight the election and win
> it..
> > > That
> > > >> would have silenced many people who always look upon him as the
> > 'stooge
> > > of
> > > >> Sonia'. However, unlike others, I wouldn't feel so bad about it. The
> > > larger
> > > >> issue is always the livelihood of people, and while Sonia may not
> have
> > > the
> > > >> responsibilities of the PM, she has the responsibilities of ensuring
> > her
> > > >> party wins elections. Therefore, even if the PM doesn't listen, she
> > has
> > > to
> > > >> listen to the voice of India, as she had to in the case of NREGA and
> > > RTI.
> > > >>
> > > >> Therefore, I don't worry much whether Manmohan is elected or not. I
> > > though
> > > >> have another reason as to why a PM should be elected.
> > > >>
> > > >> When a PM like say Vajpayee gets elected and then becomes PM, he
> knows
> > > the
> > > >> ways and means to win elections. And therefore he equally knows when
> > to
> > > >> start something, where to stop (why, where and when), where to set
> > > agendas
> > > >> and where to start working upon them. Manmohan I don't think has
> that
> > > >> political experience an elected PM have to manage his allies. This
> is
> > > clear
> > > >> from the way he reacted at different times to the nuclear deal. His
> > > >> reactions wouldn't have changed so much had he been an elected PM.
> > > Perhaps
> > > >> he could have handled the Left better in that case.
> > > >>
> > > >> But again this is only my speculation. It may be true, or it may be
> > > false.
> > > >>
> > > >> And democracy is not about elections. It is about giving rights to
> > > citizens
> > > >> and ensure that they are indeed actually provided those rights. So
> an
> > > >> elected PM or not is not a big issue.
> > > >>
> > > >> What is are the rights of people to secure their livelihood.
> > > >>
> > > >> If the BJP gains this huge lesson from this election, I would be the
> > > most
> > > >> happy person on this planet. And my frustration at this not
> happening
> > is
> > > >> what made me write in a nasty way, for which I am sorry. I would not
> > > repeat
> > > >> that again.
> > > >>
> > > >> And if the BJP doesn't learn it, then we need another party to come
> at
> > > >> centre to fight against Congress and displace BJP from its pole.
> > > >>
> > > >> And finally, the last word from one of my friends who also happens
> to
> > be
> > > a
> > > >> member of this list:
> > > >>
> > > >> The BJP lost because the revenues obtained through growth are spent
> > only
> > > to
> > > >> further growth. The Congress won because it spent partially the
> > revenues
> > > >> obtained through growth to bring up the poor to above-subsistence
> > level
> > > and
>
> > > >> contributed in some measure to equitable development in this manner.
> > > >>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> Regards
> > > >>
> > > >> Rakesh
> > > >> _________________________________________
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> > > >>
> > > > _________________________________________
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> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > subscribe in the subject header..
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com
>
> > > _________________________________________
> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > subscribe in the subject header.
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Aditya Raj Kaul
>
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in the subject header.
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> >
> _________________________________________
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