[Reader-list] Fwd: "Muslims must quit UK armed forces"

[anupam chakravartty]

Dear Kshmendra,

There is no point in arguing about this. It is unfortunate you readily
accept the excesses made by the Americans and British present in South
Asia and other parts but you are not comfortable when someone from
Iran makes a statement through an interview initiated by the newspaper
itself. The question of interference versus opinion comes up here. If
i go by your virtues of interference and international treaties and
who should speak and who should not speak, should I not call your
opinions or mine to have no bearing on any of these events? what made
you post this particular news item on this list Kshmendra? The answer
to that depends on the precise world view that you have and that I
have, if i were get a little personal on this reply. It looks like
there is a deliberate attempt on your part to ignore the
Energy-Security-Terror conflict in this region and make it seem more
like a religious crusade (just an observation from the type of
arguments that you have been posting here). Must I not say that you
want the same things as or what fundamental islamists want to
establish -- that the fight is about my religion (though you may be on
the other extreme of the conflict).

I do respect the sovereignty of US like i respect that of Tibet, so I
would not like be to lectured about mixing up religion and a country.
I condemn the acts in Iran but I also condemn the acts in Afghanistan
and Iraq by all the stakeholders, be it the islamist or the americans.
there are people above these labels. would you like accept that as a
fact or is it too cliched fro you?

- with warm regards
Anupam

On 11/17/09, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Anupam Sir!
>
> How is the presence of USA in the Indian Ocean pertinent to what we were
> talking about?
>
> Rhetorical question maybe. Perhaps you have picked on the reference to
> keeping an "eye".
>
> If so you are mixing up two dissimilar entities. USA is a country. Islam is
> not a country.
>
> The presence of USA in Indian Ocean is in International Waters. Not
> different from the globe circumventing "eyes in the sky".
>
> Any country is at liberty to have their presence there. I do not know of any
> instance in the recent past where one country has told others that they
> alone have the right to be present in International Waters or in the realm
> of Space beyond the Air Space of individual countries.
>
> USA also has bases in the India Ocean (and other oceans). Those are by
> mutual agreement between countries. Again, any country is at liberty to
> enter into such agreements.
>
> I am not here trying to justify the presence of USA in the Indian Ocean or
> in elsewhere oceans or in Afghanistan or Iraq.
>
> My point is that arrangements exist between countries on a mutual basis or
> by International pacts. Arrangements do not exist between a country (or
> countries) and Islam or for that matter with any other religion.
>
> Here perhaps lies a clue to the suspicions earlier spoken about.
>
> If Islam is projected as being a State of it's own, a monolithic entity,
> that has the right to transgress boundaries boundaries between countries,
> then it will be treated with suspicion as a Non-State actor. It appertains
> unto itself rights by self-volition and not by mutual consent.
>
> This leads to a logical question, which I already addressed in a earlier
> mail to Yasir. I wrote:
>
> """""" There is not much difference is there between USA interfering in
> other
> countries in the name of "USA's Ideal" and Muslims interfering in any
> country they choose to in the name of an "Islamic Ideal"? """""""
> Interference in affairs of a country, by word or action by Non-State actors
> in the name of the Non-State entity of Islam (or any other religion) becomes
> problematic.
>
> Hope I made some sense.
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
> --- On Tue, 11/17/09, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: "Muslims must quit UK armed forces"
> To: "Rakesh Iyer" <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>, "sarai list"
> <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 5:14 PM
>
>
> Dear Kshmendra,
>
> "Islam can keep keep all the 'eye' that it wants to on political
> issues but it should do so in Islamic Countries. When your loud
> pronouncements try to propagate/export that aspect of Islamicness to
> the Muslim citizens of a Non-Islamic country then you are creating
> problems for those Muslims."
>
> Sir if u could explain the presence of American troops in Indian
> Ocean. What do they want here? Geo-politically strategic mumbo jumbo
> is helpful to please a certain category of intellectuals. But please
> spare this lay person from buying this argument here.
>
> Thanks Anupam
>
>
>
>