[Reader-list] FW: FW: ATTEMPT OF TARNISHING GUJARAT IMAGE

[Rakesh Iyer]

Dear Pawan

Please read the subject of the mail once again.

Rakesh

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:

> Dear Bipin Bhai ,
>
> You have failed to understand of how certain people have very
> conveniently diverted the issue away from Dantewada and naxalism by
> focusing on Gujarat discussion .
>
> Unfortunately , you became a willing companion.
>
> Pawan
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
> > I have applauding Modi for his efficient Governance ability. Its riot
> matter
> > we were talking and only Gujarat riot, not other riot everyone want to
> > highlight.
> >
> >
> >
> > Other than riot, issue altogether different. Don't mix up riot and other
> > governing matters for discussion. For useless scheme like NREGA I have
> > already mentioned my views.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:25 PM
> > To: Bipin Trivedi
> > Cc: sarai-list
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: FW: ATTEMPT OF TARNISHING GUJARAT IMAGE
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Bipin
> >
> > I post these mails in the hope that you would try to be rational and
> > understand that your faith in Modi is misguided.
> >
> > As for exaggerating things, I had written mails on Right to Food and
> NREGA
> > as well. Then nobody was around here to argue for such things or suggest
> > better concrete measures. Even you have only such issues to argue upon.
> Then
> > even you and those who support your views had nothing to comment.
> >
> > And I won't blame you, as I used to earlier. When people agree on certain
> > issues, there is nothing to argue about. People agree that a NREGA is
> > important or that a Right to Food is important, and therefore we don't
> > argue.
> >
> > But you have conveniently forgotten facts only to prove yourself right. I
> > don't say that Modi has done all things wrong, but this is and will
> remain a
> > major blot on his governance and his ideas. And I don't think he
> understands
> > development as well.
> >
> > Rakesh
> >
> > @ Pawan ji: Even Rajiv Gandhi had sent the army after 3 days to quell the
> > 1984 riots. That didn't stop the violence, because almost all the
> violence
> > took place in those 3 days. Same was the case here in Gujarat under Modi.
> > And as for the appeal, the appeal was followed, as Anupam pointed out
> later,
> > by a Gujarat Gaurav Rath Yatra, which was his election campaign.
> >
> > Modi was belting out statements like 'Hum paanch humare pachees' during
> his
> > campaign, in clear violation of all norms of society. He would have done
> > better to know that as per the only report done on this, more Hindus had
> > been practising polygamy in India than Muslims. This report based on a
> > survey conducted in 1974 found out that 1 crore Hindus and 12 lakh
> Muslims
> > had indulged in polygamy. (all figures for men).
> >
> > After that no figures have been obtained. So without figures, Modi has no
> > right to blame Muslims for having more wives than Hindus, based on his
> > useless perception-based theory.
> >
> > Anupam said it right, go and watch the documentary: Final Solution. In
> one
> > of his speeches, Modi states that if Godhra would not have happened, not
> > even one stone would have been thrown. The rest is well understood.
> >
> > Rakesh
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Rakesh,
> >
> > Why you repeating all these, which you have mentioned many times and yet
> the
> > investigation going on by both commission and SC. The point here is only
> > this issue every one want to highlight while other riots swiftly
> forgotten
> > that was actually point I have mentioned in my mail in which you replied
> all
> > this.
> >
> > You are proving me right again that only this issue every one want to
> > highlight and exaggerate.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:38 PM
> >
> >
> > To: Bipin Trivedi
> > Cc: sarai-list
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: FW: ATTEMPT OF TARNISHING GUJARAT IMAGE
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Bipin
> >
> > You are talking about Godhra. First of all, Godhra is in Gujarat, and in
> > 2002 when that incident took place, Gujarat had a BJP government in the
> > state whose primary responsibility it was to protect those who lost their
> > lives in the unfortunate incident.
> >
> > Secondly, during that time, the Indian Govt. was the BJP-led NDA govt.,
> and
> > the Railways Minister was Nitish Kumar, the current Chief Minister of
> Bihar.
> > It was his and his ministry's responsibility to ensure that those
> travelling
> > in any train, including this one, were protected.
> >
> > Both failed, and the consequences were disastrous.
> >
> > Let us go further ahead and use the arguments Gujarat police have used.
> >
> > The Gujarat police initially declared that this was an ISI-led conspiracy
> to
> > use local elements and instigate them to carry out this heinous act. Any
> > such act should have been caught by the intelligence machinery and
> effective
> > measures taken to catch the culprits and counter this effort. The fact
> that
> > both central intelligence and state intelligence failed to do so, is a
> > failure of governments both at the centre and the state, both of which
> are
> > BJP or BJP-led. So again, the blame goes on the BJP and their
> governments.
> >
> > What is also shameful is that a whole pogrom occupied the matters of a
> state
> > for so much time which took place because supposedly ISI had a role in
> > burning of the train. So basically, if the ISI in Pakistan conducts an
> act
> > of killing Hindus here, there will be riots. What a shame indeed for the
> > Indian society and for the Indian state that all that the ISI has to do
> is
> > conduct such an act and then wait for a pogrom to take place!
> >
> > It was of course another matter that till date they have not been able to
> > prove how this was an ISI conspiracy to destabilize India.
> >
> > The Gujarat police has also been conveniently changing stands on the
> Godhra
> > case. First, they said the train was burnt from outside. When it was
> stated
> > by forensic experts that this can't be done and also cited the proof of
> the
> > same (being that if the train was burnt from outside, the tracks would
> also
> > have been burnt somewhat), the new theory formulated was that the
> vestibule
> > was cut and people went in and poured petrol inside. Nobody thought it
> fit
> > to realize that in the stone-throwing spree from outside, with the doors
> > closed, firstly people inside the bogie would have protested and pushed
> out
> > those who were pouring kerosene or petrol on the people. Secondly, all
> > sleeper coaches in such trains are connected and so people could have
> > escaped through these to other coaches. And most importantly, some people
> > did manage to escape through the door, though they did get injured due to
> > stone-throwing. And yes, while cloth rags were thrown inside the bogies,
> no
> > passenger eye-witness claimed any petrol or kerosene being thrown on them
> or
> > others.
> >
> > The Gujarat police arrested even a blind person as part of the
> conspiracy.
> > And all of these were charged under POTA. Never mind that there was not
> an
> > iota of evidence to prove that these people were terrorists or were part
> of
> > a conspiracy!
> >
> > This is about Godhra. Till today, we don't know how this act of burning
> took
> > place. We don't know who are the perpetrators. Horror of horrors, we
> don't
> > know who all actually lost their lives on that day, since the identities
> of
> > some of those who died are still not known (never mind that the
> > RSS-VHP-BJP-Bajrang Dal combine states that they are karsewaks, without
> any
> > evidence to back their claim). And we don't know why unlike in normal
> cases,
> > the Railway Ministry didn't institute a commission of inquiry to
> investigate
> > the event within 48 hours (this work being done by the Nanavati-Shah
> > commission).
> >
> > When the police fails, a whole set of people are not able to get justice.
> > And a whole set of innocents then find themselves being implicated in
> false
> > cases.
> >
> > But then some people live in the irony of pride of Gujarat.
> >
> > Rakesh
> >
> > P.S:
> >
> > It's hilarious for you to claim that we have started noting other riots
> or
> > pogroms. I don't think anyone with any sense of humanity can ever condone
> a
> > riot or a pogrom. Just because I didn't mention it or someone never
> > mentioned it doesn't mean they support it. First ask them before stating
> > such things.
> >
> > For people like you who believe in tit-for-tat, two wrongs make a right.
> > Since Congress organized 1984 pogrom and got away with it, BJP according
> to
> > you also has a right to conduct 2002 pogrom and get away with it. Since
> > Congress according to you practises corruption, BJP also has a right to
> > indulge in corruption. And since Congress has a right to indulge in
> > appeasement of Muslims, BJP has a right to indulge in Hindu appeasement
> as
> > well.
> >
> > It would be good for you to understand that both are wrong, and because
> you
> > have done a wrong act doesn't mean I too have a right to commit that
> wrong
> > act.
> >
> > @ Pawan
> >
> > I wonder what kind of person are you, who claims on one hand to have
> > suffered at the hands of fundamentalists in Kashmir and also the
> government,
> > (forced out of Kashmir, your home), and supporting a mass-murderer like
> Modi
> > who has a completely skewed notion of development and was fiddling like
> Nero
> > while Gujarat burnt.
> >
> > I thought victims of tragedies of a similar kind understand each other.
> But
> > this notion of yours now makes me think twice about that assertion.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________
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