[Reader-list] FW: FW: ATTEMPT OF TARNISHING GUJARAT IMAGE

[Bipin Trivedi]

May be you are right, but this issue started again by posting reply I got
from Indira Hirway to me and appreciated by few readers!


-----Original Message-----
From: Pawan Durani [mailto:pawan.durani at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:07 PM
To: Bipin Trivedi
Cc: sarai-list
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: FW: ATTEMPT OF TARNISHING GUJARAT IMAGE

Dear Bipin Bhai ,

You have failed to understand of how certain people have very
conveniently diverted the issue away from Dantewada and naxalism by
focusing on Gujarat discussion .

Unfortunately , you became a willing companion.

Pawan

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
> I have applauding Modi for his efficient Governance ability. Its riot
matter
> we were talking and only Gujarat riot, not other riot everyone want to
> highlight.
>
>
>
> Other than riot, issue altogether different. Don't mix up riot and other
> governing matters for discussion. For useless scheme like NREGA I have
> already mentioned my views.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:25 PM
> To: Bipin Trivedi
> Cc: sarai-list
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: FW: ATTEMPT OF TARNISHING GUJARAT IMAGE
>
>
>
> Dear Bipin
>
> I post these mails in the hope that you would try to be rational and
> understand that your faith in Modi is misguided.
>
> As for exaggerating things, I had written mails on Right to Food and NREGA
> as well. Then nobody was around here to argue for such things or suggest
> better concrete measures. Even you have only such issues to argue upon.
Then
> even you and those who support your views had nothing to comment.
>
> And I won't blame you, as I used to earlier. When people agree on certain
> issues, there is nothing to argue about. People agree that a NREGA is
> important or that a Right to Food is important, and therefore we don't
> argue.
>
> But you have conveniently forgotten facts only to prove yourself right. I
> don't say that Modi has done all things wrong, but this is and will remain
a
> major blot on his governance and his ideas. And I don't think he
understands
> development as well.
>
> Rakesh
>
> @ Pawan ji: Even Rajiv Gandhi had sent the army after 3 days to quell the
> 1984 riots. That didn't stop the violence, because almost all the violence
> took place in those 3 days. Same was the case here in Gujarat under Modi.
> And as for the appeal, the appeal was followed, as Anupam pointed out
later,
> by a Gujarat Gaurav Rath Yatra, which was his election campaign.
>
> Modi was belting out statements like 'Hum paanch humare pachees' during
his
> campaign, in clear violation of all norms of society. He would have done
> better to know that as per the only report done on this, more Hindus had
> been practising polygamy in India than Muslims. This report based on a
> survey conducted in 1974 found out that 1 crore Hindus and 12 lakh Muslims
> had indulged in polygamy. (all figures for men).
>
> After that no figures have been obtained. So without figures, Modi has no
> right to blame Muslims for having more wives than Hindus, based on his
> useless perception-based theory.
>
> Anupam said it right, go and watch the documentary: Final Solution. In one
> of his speeches, Modi states that if Godhra would not have happened, not
> even one stone would have been thrown. The rest is well understood.
>
> Rakesh
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
>
> Dear Rakesh,
>
> Why you repeating all these, which you have mentioned many times and yet
the
> investigation going on by both commission and SC. The point here is only
> this issue every one want to highlight while other riots swiftly forgotten
> that was actually point I have mentioned in my mail in which you replied
all
> this.
>
> You are proving me right again that only this issue every one want to
> highlight and exaggerate.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:38 PM
>
>
> To: Bipin Trivedi
> Cc: sarai-list
>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: FW: ATTEMPT OF TARNISHING GUJARAT IMAGE
>
>
>
> Dear Bipin
>
> You are talking about Godhra. First of all, Godhra is in Gujarat, and in
> 2002 when that incident took place, Gujarat had a BJP government in the
> state whose primary responsibility it was to protect those who lost their
> lives in the unfortunate incident.
>
> Secondly, during that time, the Indian Govt. was the BJP-led NDA govt.,
and
> the Railways Minister was Nitish Kumar, the current Chief Minister of
Bihar.
> It was his and his ministry's responsibility to ensure that those
travelling
> in any train, including this one, were protected.
>
> Both failed, and the consequences were disastrous.
>
> Let us go further ahead and use the arguments Gujarat police have used.
>
> The Gujarat police initially declared that this was an ISI-led conspiracy
to
> use local elements and instigate them to carry out this heinous act. Any
> such act should have been caught by the intelligence machinery and
effective
> measures taken to catch the culprits and counter this effort. The fact
that
> both central intelligence and state intelligence failed to do so, is a
> failure of governments both at the centre and the state, both of which are
> BJP or BJP-led. So again, the blame goes on the BJP and their governments.
>
> What is also shameful is that a whole pogrom occupied the matters of a
state
> for so much time which took place because supposedly ISI had a role in
> burning of the train. So basically, if the ISI in Pakistan conducts an act
> of killing Hindus here, there will be riots. What a shame indeed for the
> Indian society and for the Indian state that all that the ISI has to do is
> conduct such an act and then wait for a pogrom to take place!
>
> It was of course another matter that till date they have not been able to
> prove how this was an ISI conspiracy to destabilize India.
>
> The Gujarat police has also been conveniently changing stands on the
Godhra
> case. First, they said the train was burnt from outside. When it was
stated
> by forensic experts that this can't be done and also cited the proof of
the
> same (being that if the train was burnt from outside, the tracks would
also
> have been burnt somewhat), the new theory formulated was that the
vestibule
> was cut and people went in and poured petrol inside. Nobody thought it fit
> to realize that in the stone-throwing spree from outside, with the doors
> closed, firstly people inside the bogie would have protested and pushed
out
> those who were pouring kerosene or petrol on the people. Secondly, all
> sleeper coaches in such trains are connected and so people could have
> escaped through these to other coaches. And most importantly, some people
> did manage to escape through the door, though they did get injured due to
> stone-throwing. And yes, while cloth rags were thrown inside the bogies,
no
> passenger eye-witness claimed any petrol or kerosene being thrown on them
or
> others.
>
> The Gujarat police arrested even a blind person as part of the conspiracy.
> And all of these were charged under POTA. Never mind that there was not an
> iota of evidence to prove that these people were terrorists or were part
of
> a conspiracy!
>
> This is about Godhra. Till today, we don't know how this act of burning
took
> place. We don't know who are the perpetrators. Horror of horrors, we don't
> know who all actually lost their lives on that day, since the identities
of
> some of those who died are still not known (never mind that the
> RSS-VHP-BJP-Bajrang Dal combine states that they are karsewaks, without
any
> evidence to back their claim). And we don't know why unlike in normal
cases,
> the Railway Ministry didn't institute a commission of inquiry to
investigate
> the event within 48 hours (this work being done by the Nanavati-Shah
> commission).
>
> When the police fails, a whole set of people are not able to get justice.
> And a whole set of innocents then find themselves being implicated in
false
> cases.
>
> But then some people live in the irony of pride of Gujarat.
>
> Rakesh
>
> P.S:
>
> It's hilarious for you to claim that we have started noting other riots or
> pogroms. I don't think anyone with any sense of humanity can ever condone
a
> riot or a pogrom. Just because I didn't mention it or someone never
> mentioned it doesn't mean they support it. First ask them before stating
> such things.
>
> For people like you who believe in tit-for-tat, two wrongs make a right.
> Since Congress organized 1984 pogrom and got away with it, BJP according
to
> you also has a right to conduct 2002 pogrom and get away with it. Since
> Congress according to you practises corruption, BJP also has a right to
> indulge in corruption. And since Congress has a right to indulge in
> appeasement of Muslims, BJP has a right to indulge in Hindu appeasement as
> well.
>
> It would be good for you to understand that both are wrong, and because
you
> have done a wrong act doesn't mean I too have a right to commit that wrong
> act.
>
> @ Pawan
>
> I wonder what kind of person are you, who claims on one hand to have
> suffered at the hands of fundamentalists in Kashmir and also the
government,
> (forced out of Kashmir, your home), and supporting a mass-murderer like
Modi
> who has a completely skewed notion of development and was fiddling like
Nero
> while Gujarat burnt.
>
> I thought victims of tragedies of a similar kind understand each other.
But
> this notion of yours now makes me think twice about that assertion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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