[Reader-list] FW: FW: ATTEMPT OF TARNISHING GUJARAT IMAGE

[Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi]

Well said, Pawan, it is a praveen swami a  communist party of west Bengal,
card holder, who defended the cadres of west bengal CPM who looted, raped in
Nandigram and singur, later when the locals joined with CPM (ml) or what is
now known as naxalism and list comes to discuss the naxalism, attention is
taken towards modi and gujarath riots.!
 And as to Rakesh, it is not possible for me to argue, and not worth also as
he likes to write, see and act what he likes,( like me,) and we agree to
disagree.!May be with experience he will understand as I do now, how the
Indian National Congress is no more in existence, it started waning in 1939,
and became little crescent and a star with a cross in 1948 when Nehru took
over, later Indira and her son married a Sonia, to make it a party of
crusades against the pagan of india, be it kashmiri pandits or any other
denomination, thanks to the greed of individuals in different walks of
life.!
Regards,
rajen

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:

> Dear Bipin Bhai ,
>
> You have failed to understand of how certain people have very
> conveniently diverted the issue away from Dantewada and naxalism by
> focusing on Gujarat discussion .
>
> Unfortunately , you became a willing companion.
>
> Pawan
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
> > I have applauding Modi for his efficient Governance ability. Its riot
> matter
> > we were talking and only Gujarat riot, not other riot everyone want to
> > highlight.
> >
> >
> >
> > Other than riot, issue altogether different. Don't mix up riot and other
> > governing matters for discussion. For useless scheme like NREGA I have
> > already mentioned my views.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:25 PM
> > To: Bipin Trivedi
> > Cc: sarai-list
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: FW: ATTEMPT OF TARNISHING GUJARAT IMAGE
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Bipin
> >
> > I post these mails in the hope that you would try to be rational and
> > understand that your faith in Modi is misguided.
> >
> > As for exaggerating things, I had written mails on Right to Food and
> NREGA
> > as well. Then nobody was around here to argue for such things or suggest
> > better concrete measures. Even you have only such issues to argue upon.
> Then
> > even you and those who support your views had nothing to comment.
> >
> > And I won't blame you, as I used to earlier. When people agree on certain
> > issues, there is nothing to argue about. People agree that a NREGA is
> > important or that a Right to Food is important, and therefore we don't
> > argue.
> >
> > But you have conveniently forgotten facts only to prove yourself right. I
> > don't say that Modi has done all things wrong, but this is and will
> remain a
> > major blot on his governance and his ideas. And I don't think he
> understands
> > development as well.
> >
> > Rakesh
> >
> > @ Pawan ji: Even Rajiv Gandhi had sent the army after 3 days to quell the
> > 1984 riots. That didn't stop the violence, because almost all the
> violence
> > took place in those 3 days. Same was the case here in Gujarat under Modi.
> > And as for the appeal, the appeal was followed, as Anupam pointed out
> later,
> > by a Gujarat Gaurav Rath Yatra, which was his election campaign.
> >
> > Modi was belting out statements like 'Hum paanch humare pachees' during
> his
> > campaign, in clear violation of all norms of society. He would have done
> > better to know that as per the only report done on this, more Hindus had
> > been practising polygamy in India than Muslims. This report based on a
> > survey conducted in 1974 found out that 1 crore Hindus and 12 lakh
> Muslims
> > had indulged in polygamy. (all figures for men).
> >
> > After that no figures have been obtained. So without figures, Modi has no
> > right to blame Muslims for having more wives than Hindus, based on his
> > useless perception-based theory.
> >
> > Anupam said it right, go and watch the documentary: Final Solution. In
> one
> > of his speeches, Modi states that if Godhra would not have happened, not
> > even one stone would have been thrown. The rest is well understood.
> >
> > Rakesh
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Rakesh,
> >
> > Why you repeating all these, which you have mentioned many times and yet
> the
> > investigation going on by both commission and SC. The point here is only
> > this issue every one want to highlight while other riots swiftly
> forgotten
> > that was actually point I have mentioned in my mail in which you replied
> all
> > this.
> >
> > You are proving me right again that only this issue every one want to
> > highlight and exaggerate.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Rakesh Iyer [mailto:rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:38 PM
> >
> >
> > To: Bipin Trivedi
> > Cc: sarai-list
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: FW: ATTEMPT OF TARNISHING GUJARAT IMAGE
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Bipin
> >
> > You are talking about Godhra. First of all, Godhra is in Gujarat, and in
> > 2002 when that incident took place, Gujarat had a BJP government in the
> > state whose primary responsibility it was to protect those who lost their
> > lives in the unfortunate incident.
> >
> > Secondly, during that time, the Indian Govt. was the BJP-led NDA govt.,
> and
> > the Railways Minister was Nitish Kumar, the current Chief Minister of
> Bihar.
> > It was his and his ministry's responsibility to ensure that those
> travelling
> > in any train, including this one, were protected.
> >
> > Both failed, and the consequences were disastrous.
> >
> > Let us go further ahead and use the arguments Gujarat police have used.
> >
> > The Gujarat police initially declared that this was an ISI-led conspiracy
> to
> > use local elements and instigate them to carry out this heinous act. Any
> > such act should have been caught by the intelligence machinery and
> effective
> > measures taken to catch the culprits and counter this effort. The fact
> that
> > both central intelligence and state intelligence failed to do so, is a
> > failure of governments both at the centre and the state, both of which
> are
> > BJP or BJP-led. So again, the blame goes on the BJP and their
> governments.
> >
> > What is also shameful is that a whole pogrom occupied the matters of a
> state
> > for so much time which took place because supposedly ISI had a role in
> > burning of the train. So basically, if the ISI in Pakistan conducts an
> act
> > of killing Hindus here, there will be riots. What a shame indeed for the
> > Indian society and for the Indian state that all that the ISI has to do
> is
> > conduct such an act and then wait for a pogrom to take place!
> >
> > It was of course another matter that till date they have not been able to
> > prove how this was an ISI conspiracy to destabilize India.
> >
> > The Gujarat police has also been conveniently changing stands on the
> Godhra
> > case. First, they said the train was burnt from outside. When it was
> stated
> > by forensic experts that this can't be done and also cited the proof of
> the
> > same (being that if the train was burnt from outside, the tracks would
> also
> > have been burnt somewhat), the new theory formulated was that the
> vestibule
> > was cut and people went in and poured petrol inside. Nobody thought it
> fit
> > to realize that in the stone-throwing spree from outside, with the doors
> > closed, firstly people inside the bogie would have protested and pushed
> out
> > those who were pouring kerosene or petrol on the people. Secondly, all
> > sleeper coaches in such trains are connected and so people could have
> > escaped through these to other coaches. And most importantly, some people
> > did manage to escape through the door, though they did get injured due to
> > stone-throwing. And yes, while cloth rags were thrown inside the bogies,
> no
> > passenger eye-witness claimed any petrol or kerosene being thrown on them
> or
> > others.
> >
> > The Gujarat police arrested even a blind person as part of the
> conspiracy.
> > And all of these were charged under POTA. Never mind that there was not
> an
> > iota of evidence to prove that these people were terrorists or were part
> of
> > a conspiracy!
> >
> > This is about Godhra. Till today, we don't know how this act of burning
> took
> > place. We don't know who are the perpetrators. Horror of horrors, we
> don't
> > know who all actually lost their lives on that day, since the identities
> of
> > some of those who died are still not known (never mind that the
> > RSS-VHP-BJP-Bajrang Dal combine states that they are karsewaks, without
> any
> > evidence to back their claim). And we don't know why unlike in normal
> cases,
> > the Railway Ministry didn't institute a commission of inquiry to
> investigate
> > the event within 48 hours (this work being done by the Nanavati-Shah
> > commission).
> >
> > When the police fails, a whole set of people are not able to get justice.
> > And a whole set of innocents then find themselves being implicated in
> false
> > cases.
> >
> > But then some people live in the irony of pride of Gujarat.
> >
> > Rakesh
> >
> > P.S:
> >
> > It's hilarious for you to claim that we have started noting other riots
> or
> > pogroms. I don't think anyone with any sense of humanity can ever condone
> a
> > riot or a pogrom. Just because I didn't mention it or someone never
> > mentioned it doesn't mean they support it. First ask them before stating
> > such things.
> >
> > For people like you who believe in tit-for-tat, two wrongs make a right.
> > Since Congress organized 1984 pogrom and got away with it, BJP according
> to
> > you also has a right to conduct 2002 pogrom and get away with it. Since
> > Congress according to you practises corruption, BJP also has a right to
> > indulge in corruption. And since Congress has a right to indulge in
> > appeasement of Muslims, BJP has a right to indulge in Hindu appeasement
> as
> > well.
> >
> > It would be good for you to understand that both are wrong, and because
> you
> > have done a wrong act doesn't mean I too have a right to commit that
> wrong
> > act.
> >
> > @ Pawan
> >
> > I wonder what kind of person are you, who claims on one hand to have
> > suffered at the hands of fundamentalists in Kashmir and also the
> government,
> > (forced out of Kashmir, your home), and supporting a mass-murderer like
> Modi
> > who has a completely skewed notion of development and was fiddling like
> Nero
> > while Gujarat burnt.
> >
> > I thought victims of tragedies of a similar kind understand each other.
> But
> > this notion of yours now makes me think twice about that assertion.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>



-- 
Rajen.