[Reader-list] Pakistan kids on reality show face MNS ire

Subhash subhachops at gmail.com
Sun Aug 1 19:57:53 IST 2010


Dear Kshmendra
You only have to look around to see how much nationalistic rhetoric
revolves around us and our children. I have heard from several of my
Muslim friends that their kids in school get taunted (by their
non-Muslim classmates) as being Pakistanis and terrorists. I know this
is not taught in a textbook, but where else is it coming from? Its not
just a matter of textbooks - look at all other media and entertainment
industry. Do I have to provide a list of the Bollywood movies and TV
serials where the hate rhetoric about Pakistani terrorism and Kashmir
and Muslim stereotypes is being fed to us every day. I am giving below
some slogans and songs as a sample for Kashmir - I am sure you can
find many more such examples. And by the way, one untruth that our
school books tell us any way is the official map of Kashmir. While the
entire world (and UN) shows the two top portions of Kashmir as part of
Pakistan and China, we believe these are ours. I am not saying that we
should not be concerned and protective about a piece of our land.
After all our security is important. But if its a problem area, we
should be honest about it, and say that those portions of Kashmir are
disputed. The very image of a complete map of Kashmir that is fed to a
child's mind in school feeds a sense of pride - most Indians don't
even know that the actual map of Indian Kashmir is a bit different.
Any way, this is too minor an issue compared to the other burning
issues. And I am denying the hate propaganda in Pakistani textbooks -
it certainly is terrible. But we are no less.

Any way, enjoy some of these slogans:

Doodh maango-ge to kheer denge
Kashmir maango-ge to cheer denge

(If you ask for milk, we'll give you pudding
But if you ask for Kashmir, we'll rip you apart).

Another song from a movie (sorry, no translation):

jannat ki tasvir na denge
haathon mein kisi gair ke taqadir na denge
kashmir hai bhaarat ka kashmir na denge

dhamaki se kisi zulm ki ham dar nahin sakate
samajhauta kisi desh se ham kar nahin sakate
kya chhalega tu phuut yah ghar hai kabir ka
jhagada nahin ho sakata hai tulasi se mir ka
jo phuul chaman ka hai chaman mein hi khilega
abdul hi apane desh par mar mitega
lutane kabhi aazaadi ki jaagir na denge
kashmir hai bhaarat ka

parades se tuune hathiyaar mangavaaye
kalaur se net sebarajet giraaye
hathiyaaron se kar sakata nahin dil pe tu qabza
taaqat se bada desh ki kidamat ka hai jazba
gaddaar hai vah hind ka jo pyaar tujhe de
vah aman ka dushman hai jo hathiyaar tujhe de
divaane ke ham haath mein kashmir na denge
kashmir hai bhaarat ka

Movie/Album Name: JOHAR IN KASHMIR
Singer Name: MOHAMMAD RAFI

And another one in Hindi (which is not so bad):

ये कश्मीर हमारा है

गूंज रहा है सारे देश में केवल आज ये नारा है

तुम्हें ना देंगे वो गददारों ये कश्मीर हमारा है,

बहुत दिनों तक ये कश्मीर खून के आंसू रोया है,

आतंकवाद के कारण अब तक एक रात ना सोया है,

मां बहनों की लूटी इज्जत बिधवा उन्हे बनाया है,

जाने कितने अत्याचार करके उन्हे सताया है,

दूर करेंगे सारे मिलकर छाया जो अंधियारा है,

तुम्हें ना देंगे वो गददारों ये कश्मीर हमारा है,



क्यो छिपते फिरते घाटी में बदल बदल कर वेशों में,

अगर ना प्यारी भारत माँ तु जाओ अरब के देशों में,

अब जो अगर एक भारतीय मारा लहू तेरा पी जाएंगे,

एक जान के बदले सौ सौ लेकर हम दिखलाएंगें,

खत्म करा दो 370 लगी जो अब तक धारा है,

तुम्हें ना देंगे वो गददारों ये कश्मीर हमारा है,



देश के ऐसे दुश्मन से तो अब ना हमें डरना होगा,

47 में हुए जो टुकड़े, उन्हे एक करना होगा,

इतिहासों में एक कहानी और जोड़ दी जाएगी,

कश्मीर की तरफ जो देखा आंख फोड़ दी जाएगी,

स्वर्ग बनाकर सब देवों से  मिलकर इसे उतारा है,

तुम्हें ना देंगे वो गददारों ये कश्मीर हमारा है,



नही मिलेगा पानी तुमको, तड़प तड़प मर जाओगे,

अपनी काली करतूतों से, बाज नही जो आओगे,

रामचन्द्र कह गए सिया से ऐसा कलयूग आएगा,

तू क्या जीतेगा भारत को, खुद मिटटी में मिल जाएगा,

सिर्फ धरती का स्वर्ग ना समझों निज आंखों का तारा है,

तुम्हें ना देंगे वो गददारों ये कश्मीर हमारा है ॥




On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Subhash
>
> Now you are talking the same kind of ill-informed crap that Bipin has been. I think. I hope I am myself not ill-informed to make that statement.
>
> Could you give examples of the 'Kashmir Topic' being taught in schools in India that attempt ideological indoctrination on the 'Kashmir Topic' in a manner similar to the situation in Pakistan given by Yasir? The reach and spread of such textbooks (if there are any)?
>
> Could you also give examples of Indian Textbooks indulging in hate mongering against Pakistan and Muslims that could be compared with the hate-mongering against India and Hindus taught in Pakistani Textbooks?
> You say  'We have been fed lies about all kinds of things'. What lies have you been fed that you have foolishly assumed to be the truth?
>
> Kshmendra
> --- On Sun, 8/1/10, Subhash <subhachops at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Subhash <subhachops at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pakistan kids on reality show face MNS ire
> To: "Bipin Trivedi" <aliens at dataone.in>
> Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 9:47 AM
>
> Dear Bipin
> You have found one poor Pakistani on this list and you are blasting
> Yasir with all your life-long prejudices against Pakistan. Come on.
> You have mentioned "we have no Kashmir topic taught in school to prove
> anything" - how wrong can that statement be. Are you sure all our
> textbooks and media right from 1947 are not full of nationalist
> rhetoric. We have been fed lies about all kinds of things (just as
> Pakistanis have been fed) and we have assumed everything to be the
> truth. All our problems could be solved if we stopped being too
> nationalistic and greedy.
>
> Subhash
>
> On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
> > Dear Yasir,
> >
> > Now you come to the point. You have been taught in school and this is the way Pakistan spreading poison between the people of two countries. There is historical evidence that J&K allotted to India. It is our great leaders blunders to take the issue in UN. In India, we have no Kashmir topic to taught in school and no need since we don't have to prove anything!
> >
> > J&K is border state and army bound to be there as usual all the country keep normally in the border. Kashmir is special case infiltration and terrorists threat forced to keep army and nothing wrong in it. There is no question of screwing the people. People are willing to live in India and recent election 60% voting proved it. Those 40% not voted, I am sure half of them are of the opinion to remain with India only. So, total 80% are happy and willing to remain with India. Only few separatists influenced and supported by Pak want be independent or remain with Pak.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bipin Trivedi
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of yasir ~?? ??
> > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:54 PM
> > To: Sarai Reader-list
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pakistan kids on reality show face MNS ire
> >
> > Dear Bipin
> >
> > No, correction, all pakistanis think Kashmir should either be either in
> > pakistan (that is the part still occupied by india), or independent. In fact
> > ask the kashmiris, thats what pakistan had been saying, we were taught in
> > school. Far from good governance, the indian army is desperately hanging on,
> > not knowing where this is going, while people are getting screwed. so thats
> > just to correct what you thought pakistanis think. i am no kashmir expert.
> >
> > of course, i think the regional dynamics need to change with the US fuelling
> > militarism in the region. they need to leave afghanistan. may be then, and
> > only then, could militancy and covert insurgencies ease (in pakistan, india
> > and afghanistan hopefully with a regional development plan) This would i
> > think allow popular reasoning to let go of the kashmir fixation and
> > militarization on the part of the the indian and pakistani states. before
> > that forget it. its like watching a dynamic stalemate in a nuclear chess
> > game. there is no shah-mord or checkmate, and border continues like some of
> > the other walls, berlin, korean, israeli-palestinian, keeping the people in
> > pain upset and in a frenzy.
> >
> > Best.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Yasir,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your view that Kashmir belongs to whom make no sense to you.
> >> It's not question of tera ya mera but it's question of Pakistan blunder and
> >> keep this issue in priority want to grab J&K by hook or crook which is not
> >> belong to them. For this only they terrorize the region. Any answer?
> >>
> >> By telling Kashmir belong to whom makes no sense to you itself gives the
> >> answer. Since technically all the pak people knows that J&K belong to India
> >> but still keep mum silently agreeing with such agenda.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Bipin Trivedi
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net]
> >> On Behalf Of yasir ~?? ??
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 3:49 PM
> >> To: Sarai Reader-list
> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pakistan kids on reality show face MNS ire
> >>
> >> Dear Bipin,
> >>
> >> Thanks for writing. i dont think i can answer everything. and definitely I
> >> cannot answer for what my government does. I am sure you feel as powerless
> >> when i comes to telling your government what to do, as I do. May be you do
> >> really have a weak government which cannot stand on its own and learn from
> >> you.
> >>
> >> As far as people are concerned here. there is no problem. I have a number
> >> of
> >> indian friends who live and work in pakistan. I think it is a compliment
> >> that to indian industry that we watch more indian tv programmes (whether
> >> sateliite or not, reality tv also comes via satellite) than indians
> >> watching
> >> pakistani tv. not only that we also have to watch the advertisements :)
> >>
> >>  as for permissions, it  is very difficult to get indian visa for
> >> pakistani,
> >> even when there are divided families. the same is true on the other side.
> >> In
> >> fact visa policy is usually matched tit-for-tat on either side.
> >>
> >> in any case india is named after the indus which is in pakistan and my
> >> family and relatives live everywhere from UP to bengal and bombay, and the
> >> history is very long. so all this talk of kashmir mera ya tera, mine or
> >> yours, makes absolutely no sense to me.
> >>
> >> best
> >> yasir
> >>
> >>
> >> 2010/7/29 Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> >>
> >> > Dear Yasir,
> >> >
> >> > Release of bollywood film or TV channel program telecast in Pak is
> >> > altogether different things. TV channel are satellite transmission and
> >> > everyone free to see it.
> >> >
> >> > Here live or reality show program topic is there. How much of Indian
> >> > artists allowed there for live show in this decade? In India Pak artists
> >> can
> >> > come and participate in TV reality shows like singing, comedy, dance
> >> while
> >> > what is the revert position? Can Indian artists can participate there?
> >> No.
> >> > if they want to go then lots of hindrance they have to suffer to get
> >> > permission while here they can come easily.
> >> >
> >> > Pak has to retrospect themselves that why some section of Indian people
> >> > oppose? taxi driver not charged a peny or they welcome Indians without
> >> > hindrance because they have confident in Indian people that by no way
> >> they
> >> > will harm us. But, what is the reverse position? Today it is proved
> >> > universally that Pak is epicenter of terrorism, so naturally people here
> >> > will somewhat hesitate to welcome.
> >> >
> >> > What Pak foreign minister Qureshi did recently? He has insulted India by
> >> > insulting our foreign minister and responsible to break away the talks.
> >> > Those who visit here or allowed to visit here from Pak, India must seek
> >> > clarification about Kashmir stand and I am sure even most of the people
> >> of
> >> > Pak will be exposed. Since Kashmir is belong to India and even POK is
> >> also
> >> > belong to India. Soft/weak stand by the Indian government encourages Pak
> >> > authority/army and leads to more awkward position. If India adopts tough
> >> > stand with Pak in all front and we can see the result in short time.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> > Bipin Trivedi
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:
> >> reader-list-bounces at sarai.net]
> >> > On Behalf Of yasir ~?? ??
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:58 PM
> >> > To: Sarai Reader-list
> >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pakistan kids on reality show face MNS ire
> >> >
> >> > i think people are forgetting that bollywood is everywhere, that indian
> >> > movies are running 24hrs on 5 channels on my cable, indian movies are now
> >> > playing in cinemas in pakistan, add to that Star plus starsports,
> >> tensports
> >> > and the like. its actually part of life here. something you cant say at
> >> the
> >> > same scale for India regarding Pk artists. so please open your eyes.
> >> >
> >> > best
> >> >
> >> > y, karachi.
> >> > _________________________________________
> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> > Critiques & Collaborations
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> >> > subscribe in the subject header.
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> _________________________________________
> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> Critiques & Collaborations
> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >> subscribe in the subject header.
> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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> >>
> >>
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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> >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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> _________________________________________
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