[Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror?

[A.K. Malik]

Dear Mr Sengupta,
                 I think it is because Islamic terrorism is spread wordwide while Hindu terrorism is in selected few places only in India and that too with objections from a large vocal Hindu community which is perhaps missing in the first case.
Regards,
(A.K.MALIK)


--- On Tue, 2/16/10, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:

> From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror?
> To: "Bipin" <aliens at dataone.in>
> Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 6:09 PM
> The matter of the Samjhauta Express
> is still under investigation, and  
> no one has been exonerated. So please do not jump to
> conclusions  
> either way. I object to the terms Hindu Terrorism on the
> same grounds  
> as I object to the terms Islamic Terrorism, but, I find it
> hard to  
> understand why some people get so agitated when you
> encounter the  
> expression 'Hindu Terror', when they accept as natural the
> term  
> 'Islamic Terror'.
> 
> best
> 
> Shuddha
> On 16-Feb-10, at 3:57 PM, Bipin wrote:
> 
> > Yes, well said Mr. Pawan, Mr. Aditya It’s a fashion
> now to blame  
> > Hindu on any terrorist attack by such
> fanatics/fascists. Samjauta  
> > express attack was pointed on Hindu by similar
> fanatics but they  
> > proved wrong. It's bitter situation that such mindset
> increasing in  
> > India and with such mindset country cannot freed from
> terrorism  
> > unless we act strictly with iron hand. But, congress
> not showing  
> > any such will and do not want to come out from
> vote-bank politics  
> > of the minor appeasement to fight the terrorism.
> >
> > However, Mr. Chidambaram succeed little bit as Home
> minister (since  
> > he was totally failure as finance minister) and able
> to strengthen  
> > our intelligence and security compared to his
> predecessor. Actually  
> > terrorist prime target was Asho Ashram and nearby
> hotel but due to  
> > tight security prevailing their due to earlier input
> given by  
> > intelligence agency, they made attack at nearby
> situated German  
> > bakery.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bipin
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net
> [mailto:reader-list- 
> > bounces at sarai.net]
> On Behalf Of Pawan Durani
> > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:05 PM
> > To: Javed
> > Cc: sarai list
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Pune: Hindutva terror?
> >
> > Good one Javed !
> >
> > This group would probably support you well for a well
> deserved  
> > Subject line.
> > Very intelligently you are trying to serve your "Deen"
> by using  
> > this method.
> >
> > Coming from this group is no surprise , as it was this
> group which  
> > started
> > to doubt Batla House as well.
> >
> > Good Going .... ..... Do i hear claps....????
> >
> > I am sure , India would have many more partitions.....
> inflicted by  
> > 1000
> > cuts and the handlers  of "non state actors".
> >
> > The ordinary citizens gets satisfied by candle light
> vigils , while  
> > ignoring
> > the threats in the name of "sickularism".
> >
> > And for the intelligent ones....pls let me know where
> do i get  
> > designer
> > candles.....!!!
> >
> > Hurt !!!
> >
> > Pawan
> >
> > PS : My heart cries out for all victimes , especially
> the brother  
> > sister
> > from WB.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Pune And After
> >> Why The German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or
> the Rajneesh
> >> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial
> explosions? Should
> >> India go ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan
> or put them on
> >> hold?
> >>
> >> B. Raman
> >> http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264301
> >>
> >> Statements and comments from home minister
> P.Chidambaram and  
> >> officials
> >> indicate that the explosion in the well-known and
> well-frequented
> >> German Bakery of Pune  around 7 PM on
> February 13, 2010, was an  
> >> act of
> >> terrorism. The case is under investigation by the
> local police and
> >> possibly too by the National Investigation Agency
> (NIA), which came
> >> into being after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in
> Mumbai. According to
> >> the latest information, nine persons, including
> one foreigner,  
> >> died in
> >> the explosion, which appears to have been not a
> sophisticated one,
> >> that could have required any special training. The
> expertise involved
> >> could have been locally acquired. One must control
> the reflex to  
> >> point
> >> an accusing finger at Pakistan.
> >>
> >> The NIA's first major investigation was into the
> travels and
> >> activities of David Coleman Headley of the Chicago
> cell of the
> >> Lashkare-Toiba (LET) and his associate 
>   Hussain Rana, also of
> >> Chicago, in India to collect operational
> information  required for
> >> targeting by the LET. Some of the details
> collected by Headley were
> >> used by the LET in the 26/11 strikes in Mumbai. He
> had also collected
> >> target details about other places of interest
> including in New Delhi
> >> and Pune. These details had not been used till now
> though his
> >> interrogation by the FBI reportedly indicated that
> the LET was
> >> interested in another terrorist strike--this time
> in New Delhi.
> >>
> >> Among the targets of interest to Headley in Pune
> was the local Chabad
> >> House, a Jewish cultural-cum-religious centre,
> which is frequented by
> >> Jewish visitors to Pune and the local Rajneesh
> Ashram frequented by
> >> the Western followers of Rajneesh, an Indian
> spiritual guru, who used
> >> to live in the US and was the mentor of some
> sections of Western
> >> youth. Both these places reconnoitred by Headley
> were near the German
> >> Bakery, but neither of them was attacked on
> February 13. Instead, the
> >> German Bakery was targeted.
> >>
> >> Why the German Bakery? Why not the Chabad House or
> the Rajneesh
> >> Ashram? Why only one explosion? Why not serial
> explosions well
> >> orchestrated as organised by the Indian Mujahideen
> in Uttar Pradesh,
> >> Jaipur, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi between
> November 2007 and
> >> September,2008? Is it a lone wolf terrorist strike
> as one saw over
> >> Detroit on Christmas Day when a Nigerian tried
> unsuccessfully to blow
> >> up a US plane as it was getting ready to land in
> Detroit or did it
> >> involve a team of terrorists like the 26/11? What
> is the significance
> >> of the timing? Anything to do with the forthcoming
> resumption of
> >> Indo-Pakistan dialogue on February 25? The
> dialogue has been under
> >> suspension since 26/11. Did the timing have
> anything to do with the
> >> US-UK offensive against the Afghan Taliban in the
> Helmand province,
> >> which got going on Feb.13? Is it a carry-over of
> the anger  against
> >> the Germans which Al Qaeda elements from Germany
> based in Pakistan's
> >> tribal belt have been showing since September
> last? Should India go
> >> ahead with the Feb.25 talks with Pakistan or put
> them on hold till a
> >> clear picture emerges?
> >>
> >> These are questions which have to be addressed by
> the NIA and the
> >> policy-makers in Delhi as the investigation makes
> headway. The Govt.
> >> of India should keep an open mind and look into
> all possibilities and
> >> should avoid over or hasty reactions.
> Reconstruction and  
> >> investigation
> >> of the explosion should have priority and not
> retaliation against it.
> >>
> >> B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet
> Secretariat,  
> >> Govt. of
> >> India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director,
> Institute For Topical
> >> Studies, Chennai.
> >>
> >> COMMENTS :
> >>        HAVE YOUR SAY
> >> Feb 15, 2010 12:30 PM
> >> 21
> >>
> >> Maha,
> >>
> >>>> what points?
> >>
> >> The points raised in my post: "One must remember
> that Pune is the
> >> headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and Janajagruti
> Samiti. Previous
> >> blasts by Hindutva terrorists were carried out in
> such a way that the
> >> suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking a
> location that had been
> >> visited by Headley would serve that purpose. In my
> view however it is
> >> more likely that the blast was the work of Indian
> Mujahideens or
> >> Pakis, but as Raman said, "The Govt. of India
> should keep an open  
> >> mind
> >> and look into all possibilities and should avoid
> over or hasty
> >> reactions.""
> >> Anwaar
> >> Dallas, United States
> >> Feb 15, 2010 12:21 PM
> >> 20
> >>
> >> Varun,
> >>
> >>>> we are going to have put up with
> mendacity, irrationality and
> >> obfuscation from Islamists and just from Moslems
> in general who  
> >> want to
> >> blame some Hindu group.
> >>
> >> Actually most of the mendacity, irrationality and
> obfuscation is from
> >> you side! Raman recommends, "The Govt. of India
> should keep an open
> >> mind and look into all possibilities and should
> avoid over or hasty
> >> reactions." But obviously keeping an open mind is
> just beyond you.
> >> Anwaar
> >> Dallas, United States
> >> Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM
> >> 19
> >>
> >> "It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the
> point raised."
> >>
> >> what points ? Anyone can create a blog and write
> biased junk
> >> propaganda articles. That does not mean we have to
> respond them.  
> >> There
> >> some isolated incidents with these hindu idiots
> and these losers are
> >> turning this into some kind of national conspiracy
> of hindu  
> >> terrorism.
> >>
> >> It is interesting you have easily bought this, but
> still not  
> >> convinced
> >> about ISI's involvement in terrorism in India.
> >> Maha
> >> NJ, United States
> >> Feb 15, 2010 10:08 AM
> >> 18
> >>
> >> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is
> work of Hindu
> >> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram
> Puniyanis, Teestas
> >> will be able to link it to them through their
> great investigative
> >> work.
> >> Maha
> >>
> >> For the next little while, we are going to have
> put up with  
> >> mendacity,
> >> irrationality and obfuscation from Islamists and
> just from Moslems in
> >> general who want to blame some Hindu group for the
> latest attack. For
> >> some real beauts, check out Countercurrents.org
> The list of suspects
> >> here would include Mossad and the CIA.
> >> Varun Shekhar
> >> Toronto, CANADA
> >> Feb 15, 2010 09:39 AM
> >> 17
> >>
> >> Usual trick by the usual suspects is blame some
> obscure Hindu  
> >> group, I
> >> suppose.I do not think the victims of this bomb
> blast will care to
> >> know whether local Islamist or Paki sponsored
> Islamist was
> >> responsible. Have a look at this and I totally
> agree with the author,
> >> Sandeep.
> >> http://www.sandeepwe...fter-and-ever-after/
> >> Rama
> >> sydney, Australia
> >> Feb 15, 2010 07:37 AM
> >> 16
> >>
> >> "Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is
> work of Hindu  
> >> terrorist"
> >>
> >> I do not know about that but one thing is sure.
> Pakistan had
> >> absolutely NO hand in the incident.
> >> Ganesan
> >> Nj, USA
> >> Feb 15, 2010 05:19 AM
> >> 15
> >>
> >> Maha,
> >>
> >>>> It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is
> work of Hindu terrorist.
> >>
> >> It is pretty obvious you have no answer to the
> point raised.
> >> Anwaar
> >> Dallas, United States
> >> Feb 15, 2010 03:10 AM
> >> 14
> >>
> >> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html"
> >>
> >> Exactly. It is pretty obvious that Pune blast is
> work of Hindu
> >> terrorist. I am sure likes of Vishal Arora, Ram
> Puniyanis, Teestas
> >> will be able to link it to them through their
> great investigative
> >> work.
> >> Maha
> >> NJ, United States
> >> Feb 15, 2010 02:22 AM
> >> 13
> >>
> >> Maha,
> >>
> >> Re: "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were
> carried out in  
> >> such a
> >> way that the suspicion would fall on Muslims".
> >>
> >> "The police had also reportedly found Muslim
> taqiyahs (skullcaps) and
> >> fake beards in Rajkuntwar’s house."
> >>
> >> http://prabhuguptara...stika-terrorism.html
> >> Anwaar
> >> Dallas, United States
> >> Feb 15, 2010 01:42 AM
> >> 12
> >>
> >> "Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were
> carried out in such a  
> >> way
> >> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims"
> >>
> >> I agree. Most of the blasts that are suspected to
> be done by islamic
> >> terrorists are found be done by Abhinav bharatis
> and other hindutva
> >> terrorists.
> >> Maha
> >> NJ, United States
> >> Feb 15, 2010 01:18 AM
> >> 11
> >>
> >> " The Govt. of India should keep an open mind and
> look into all
> >> possibilities ...."
> >>
> >> Mr.Raman is right. Among "all possibilities" one
> must remember that
> >> Pune is the headquarters of Abhinav Bharati and
> Janajagruti Samiti.
> >> Previous blasts by Hindutva terrorists were
> carried out in such a way
> >> that the suspicion would fall on Muslims. Picking
> a location that had
> >> been visited by Headley would serve that purpose.
> >>
> >> In my view however it is more likely that the
> blast was the work of
> >> Indian Mujahideens or Pakis, but as Raman said,
> "The Govt. of India
> >> should keep an open mind and look into all
> possibilities and should
> >> avoid over or hasty reactions."
> >> Anwaar
> >> Dallas, United States
> >> Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM
> >> 10
> >>
> >> Nasser u r showing pathetic mindset.Using
> Malaegaon and Samjhuta to
> >> condone Pune is abysmal thinking and deadly
> dangerous.Dont know why
> >> are you blaming Hindus for maligning yr Fellow
> Muslims.Have they not
> >> indulged and continue to indulge in senseless acts
> of terror in the
> >> name of Islam.WHy dont you guys look into
> yourselves and then blame
> >> others.If at all your very own are to be blamed.
> >> drharun
> >> chennai, India
> >> Feb 14, 2010 09:49 PM
> >> 9
> >>
> >> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime
> activity is to  
> >> cast
> >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and
> then help the police
> >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims"
> >>
> >> Moslems the world over( and you are evidence of
> it) despite Anwar's
> >> laboured denials, feel that the assault on Mumbai
> in Nov/2008 was
> >> really a conspiracy between the US, Israel/Mossad
> and some local  
> >> Hindu
> >> group( Abhinav Bharati?), who proceeded to
> massacre even Jewish
> >> visitors to Mumbai with the idea of maligning
> Moslems.
> >>
> >> This is the level of mentality of Moslems, and the
> kind of mendacious
> >> and irrational people India is up against.
> >> Varun Shekhar
> >> Toronto, CANADA
> >> Feb 14, 2010 09:46 PM
> >> 8
> >>
> >> "Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime
> activity is to  
> >> cast
> >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and
> then help the police
> >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims'
> >>
> >> Nasser
> >>
> >> Hadely and Rana have bare many things about the
> Inidam Mjuhidins .Try
> >> to accept the truth.
> >> a k ghai
> >> mumbai, India
> >> Feb 14, 2010 09:20 PM
> >> 7
> >>
> >> http://news.rediff.c...towards-pakistan.htm
> >>
> >> This cannot be true. This is pure Sanghi
> propaganda to malign our
> >> great neighbor.
> >> Maha
> >> NJ, United States
> >> Feb 14, 2010 08:59 PM
> >> 6
> >>
> >> An excellent article
> >>
> >> http://news.rediff.c...chasing-a-mirage.htm
> >> Ganesan
> >> Nj, USA
> >> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM
> >> 5
> >>
> >> Mr Raman is a diehard Sanghi and one of his prime
> activity is to cast
> >> aspersions on Muslims by preemptive judgment and
> then help the police
> >> frame innocent or unconnected Muslims.He
> deliberately kept silent on
> >> the revelations of Late Kharare the honest and
> conscientious police
> >> officer's finding of the Hindu terrorist outfits
> who were involved in
> >> blasts in Malegoan,Samjhuta Express and in others
> places in
> >> Maharashtra.Sangh parivar and BJP have more to
> gain than Pakistan in
> >> these blasts.
> >> nasar
> >> Raleigh, USA
> >> Feb 14, 2010 08:45 PM
> >> 4
> >>
> >> A great news! Talks with Pak is still on. As
> CNN-IBN reports,  
> >> India is
> >> not going to react in a knee-jerk manner. What
> broadmindedness! What
> >> diplomacy!!! Touche!!!! My heart melts.
> >>
> >> I have a question though. Why were the talks
> suspended after 26/11?
> >> And India's position then was till the culprits
> are brought to
> >> justice, there will be no talks as it would not be
> meaningful. Did  
> >> the
> >> govt acted in knee-jerk manner then? Or did I miss
> the news that the
> >> culprits of 26/11 have been brought to justice?
> >>
> >> What a joke!!! None of the terror incidents in the
> last 10 years has
> >> been solved. Not one terrorist who planned any of
> those attacks has
> >> been killed in retaliation. Not one culprit who
> masterminded the
> >> attacks have been brought to justice. Manmohan
> Singh goes out and
> >> makes a statement(I am convinced it was a routine
> statement recycling
> >> the old ones. He did not bother one bit about
> this) about bring this
> >> bunch of culprits to justice as though the
> previous incidents have
> >> been solved. The shameless media dares not ask one
> question.
> >>
> >> But why blame Manmohan or the press? People do not
> care one bit about
> >> terrorism. And this callous, knee-jerk response is
> what they will  
> >> get.
> >> In a week, this incident will be forgotten like
> the hundreds before,
> >> we will be praising the virtues of peace talks
> till the next terror
> >> attack.
> >>
> >> And the clarion call "We will bring the culprits
> to
> >> justice..........." (End of episode 2569. TO be
> continued)
> >> Ganesan
> >> Nj, USA
> >> Feb 14, 2010 07:21 PM
> >> 3
> >>
> >> Dear Mr Raman;
> >>
> >> This incident,s timing is very sensitive. It looks
> like a deliberate
> >> attempt in stalling the proposed talks with
> Pakistan? If so whose
> >> interests are these rouge elements serving?
> >>
> >> What needs to be thoroughly scrutnised is
> Pakistans sentimence  
> >> towards
> >> the talks, where they receptive or skeptical and
> was being forced to
> >> accept the offer of talks by us , so they might
> want to withdraw or
> >> stall the new initiatives?
> >>
> >> If the Pakistanis were receptive and open to the
> talks, were there  
> >> any
> >> 'strings attached'?
> >>
> >> Or if the Pakistanis were open hearted in their
> approach, whose
> >> interests were the talks going to have a negative
> impact on?
> >>
> >> What were to be our gains, which might have had
> negative impact on
> >> other's designs?
> >>
> >> The root might be more political and economic,
> as;
> >>
> >> a) India is heading for major arms purchase drive
> with billions of
> >> dollars involved in the stake.
> >>
> >> b) An increased understanding (remotely possible)
> between India and
> >> Pakistan and subsequent (again remotely possible)
> reduction of
> >> anti-India activities from Pakistani soil, so
> India might be able to
> >> concentrate more on more important issues? Like
> counter measures to
> >> balance the threat from further north.
> >>
> >> c) The American intent of leaving Afgan, and the
> possible  
> >> consequences
> >> or benefits for India vis-a-vis a better relation
> with Pakistan, also
> >> the possible losers if India were to have more
> amicable relations  
> >> with
> >> Pakistan.
> >>
> >> d) The Proposed gas pipelines from Iran and its
> future direction, if
> >> ever India and Pakistan were to be on more
> amicable terms that the
> >> present of the past.. Who stand to win and who
> stands to lose in this
> >> regard?
> >>
> >> e) The recent curry bashing in Australia - which
> seems to be scripted
> >> to strain Indo-Aussie relations? Subsequently
> attemting to ignite  
> >> some
> >> sour sentimense against India as a whole, in the
> heart of  
> >> foreigners ,
> >> especially the western world? If so whose interets
> would it serve?
> >>
> >> f) Or is this a rouge incident by other regional
> actors to divert
> >> attention from the recent MNIK controversy?
> >>
> >> If we are to gain from indulging in fruitful taks
> with Pakistan, in
> >> the long term or short term, my call is our
> country should pursue the
> >> talks and at the same time be vigilant as ever.
> >>
> >> JJ Jhb-Za/Ktm
> >> JJohn
> >> Kottayam, India
> >> Feb 14, 2010 04:58 PM
> >> 2
> >>
> >> The timing has surely got to do with the entire
> focus of the
> >> Maharashtra government getting concentrated
> firstly on Rahul Gandhi's
> >> Mumbai visit,followed by the CM himself getting
> involved in  
> >> protection
> >> to showing of MNIK film.It surely is the handiwork
> of local Jihadis.
> >> S.S.Nagaraj
> >> Bangalore, India
> >> Feb 14, 2010 03:22 PM
> >> 1
> >>
> >> It is time india realised that it is a big market
> and people want
> >> access to that. americans are practically beggars
> including the  
> >> entire
> >> west. China also wants access to indian Market.
> >>
> >> Use that clout and impose sanctions on anyboy who
> wants to sell goods
> >> to India but at the same time works against our
> interest. There is
> >> huge list of countries which can be put in that
> list. One such  
> >> measure
> >> and all of them will fall in line.
> >>
> >> Emmar for e.g. is just floating on Indian oxygen
> but Dubai keeps on
> >> propping up Pakistani "interests". One such
> measure and Dubai will
> >> fall in line.
> >> vibhaas, Doha
> >> vibhaas
> >> Doha, qatar
> >> _________________________________________
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> > _________________________________________
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> 
> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
> Raqs Media Collective
> shuddha at sarai.net
> www.sarai.net
> www.raqsmediacollective.net
> 
> 
> _________________________________________
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