[Reader-list] against continued repression of the people of Kashmir

Sun Jul 11 20:31:57 IST 2010

I respect your opinion and agree to disagree.regards, rajen.

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:20 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote:

> Rajen,
>
> This is not a court of law that you need to give me a justification. It is
> been observed how discreetly you make extremely communal comments on the
> people on this list. I need not say anything more.
>
> Anupam
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Anupam, though the intellectual in hindu for being secular have been at
>> the game of playing with words of talking about the abhinav bharath, I
>> neither support this organisation nor do i conclude that it is of sangh
>> parivar, unlike many ids who post on regular basis the "innocense' of terror
>> accused, none have posted any such messages or posts but all have only
>> reiterated that the investigations be over to arrive at the facts, whereas,
>> in other cases, be it encounters or arrests, many ids seem to be keen on
>> posting the "facts' of the accused being innocent even at investigation
>> stage. Amusingly, even after such a long time, only the partisan media men
>> and women are at the game of discredit of the accused of the organisation.!
>> regards, rajen.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:00 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Rajen ji,
>>>
>>> Anupam supports naxal violence is a indeed the inference i was expecting
>>> from you. You support Abhinav Bharat, therefore i become a supporter of
>>> Naxal violence. Condemning military violence in areas like Chattisgarh or
>>> Manipur or Kashmir doesnt turn into a naxal supporter. How convenient it is
>>> for you making such allegations while questioning others' faiths and
>>> beliefs!! really
>>>
>>> Anupam
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
>>> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good response, Kshemendra ji,
>>>> it is rather at times amusing when the "muslims" tend to see that they
>>>> are
>>>> not part of the state when it comes to responsible citizenship, but when
>>>> it
>>>> is rights they seem to be the first to claim it, same as the false
>>>> claims of
>>>> "intellectual" anmongst the citizens of this nation. Perhaps the poplous
>>>> nature of the "state' and the expectations of individuals of the
>>>> citizenship, when not met, the methods used to strategise and seek
>>>> redressal
>>>> by being naxals, by being terrorists is another facet of democratic life
>>>> where dissent stoops to the level of violence and the forces which are
>>>> meant
>>>> to be used to control such violence are attacked and the credibility is
>>>> sought to be destroyed by the traitors of democratic rule, be it
>>>> naxalites,
>>>> or fanatics of any faith to bring in their kind of rule of faith.?
>>>> Anupam has been supportive of naxal violence and rakesh with his at
>>>> times
>>>> treaties sermoning about the virtues of democracy but basically, what
>>>> surprises me most is all these citizens do not seem to have any
>>>> responsibility to the society they live in, the nation that is theirs,
>>>> but
>>>> wish to be the modern day arundhatis or naipals.!
>>>> No doubt citizens choose their elected representatives, but they are
>>>> getting
>>>> what they deserve, if some only are about rights of citizens, where
>>>> irresponsible judges retired from posts, who have been violators of all
>>>> that
>>>> is judicial rule the role of being chairmen of commissions, if corrupt
>>>> can
>>>> get away with media helping them out with titillation and sensation and
>>>> trps, democracy has been shaken at the very roots by the men and women
>>>> in
>>>> media who seem to have an attitude that they are media, so above all
>>>> laws.!
>>>> regards, rajen.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <
>>>> kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Dear Rakesh
>>>> >
>>>> > Thank you for sharing your interpretations of what is the "State" and
>>>> the
>>>> > 'basicality' of what you see in Kashmir and what you see the "State"
>>>> (as
>>>> > interpreted by you) doing to and doing with India and it's people.
>>>> >
>>>> > What you have quoted of me is incomplete. What I said was:
>>>> > "The State is little else than the People. The ills of the State are
>>>> the
>>>> > ills of it's People"
>>>> >
>>>> > Did you see that? I have mentioned the 'ills' of the State.
>>>> >
>>>> > Please register what was said in it's entirety. Quoting selectively is
>>>> not
>>>> > done. Especially when it changes the full conveyance.
>>>> >
>>>> > I do not know how to respond to your trite summation of the "State"
>>>> and
>>>> > your explaining it away with "the Indian state just consists of elites
>>>> who
>>>> > won't be displaced irrespective of any elections, and will keep
>>>> deciding on
>>>> > agendas only to destroy the lives of the poor for their own benefit"
>>>> or your
>>>> > reducing it to only being recognised through it's "ills" (which are
>>>> the
>>>> > "ills" of the people.)
>>>> >
>>>> > All that might sound impressive in some 'academic' paper or
>>>> 'journalistic'
>>>> > piece but does not count for much when taking a comprehensive view and
>>>> > making realistic solution-driven evaluations. I wonder how much you
>>>> know of
>>>> > India and it's constantly changing (power) structures.
>>>> >
>>>> > I also do not know how to respond to your shallow views on and
>>>> > understanding of Kashmir.
>>>> >
>>>> > Let me therefore, once again, say to you:
>>>> >
>>>> > "   Thank you Rakesh for sharing your interpretations of what is the
>>>> > "State" and the 'basicality' of what you see in Kashmir and what you
>>>> see the
>>>> > "State" (as interpreted by you) doing to and doing with India and it's
>>>> > people."
>>>> >
>>>> > Or, let me say that, compared to me, you are talking on a different
>>>> plane
>>>> > altogether where I struggle to make sense of what you are saying. My
>>>> > shortcomings.
>>>> >
>>>> > Or, let us say that I have expressed my viewpoint and you have
>>>> expressed
>>>> > yours and leave it at that.
>>>> >
>>>> > Kshmendra
>>>> >
>>>> > --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > From: Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
>>>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] against continued repression of the people
>>>> of
>>>> > Kashmir
>>>> > To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
>>>> > Cc: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail.com>, "sarai list" <
>>>> > reader-list at sarai.net>
>>>> > Date: Sunday, July 11, 2010, 4:42 PM
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Kshamendra
>>>> >
>>>> > I have one point to make. You said that a state is nothing but its'
>>>> people.
>>>> > How I wish that were to be true! But it is not.
>>>> >
>>>> > The Indian state is not necessarily the Indian people. And this is not
>>>> just
>>>> > essayed in one instance. It is seen in numerous instances. In general,
>>>> a
>>>> > state is just an entity which has the only authority to conduct
>>>> violence
>>>> > (legitimately) in order to protect the life of its citizens, and that
>>>> is as
>>>> > per theory. In reality, the state is seen to be only protecting itself
>>>> and
>>>> > not necessarily those who have given up their idea of violence in
>>>> order to
>>>> > seek protection.
>>>> >
>>>> > The Indian state consists of the legislature, executive and the
>>>> judiciary
>>>> > as well as the agencies which can implement the will of the state such
>>>> as
>>>> > the police, the army, the CRPF and so on.
>>>> >
>>>> > For example, what is seen in Kashmir is basically this. The Indian
>>>> state is
>>>> > hardly bothered about Kashmiris, and instead what we see is the idea
>>>> that
>>>> > Indian state should shed blood in Kashmir, if need be, to protect
>>>> itself
>>>> > from breaking. Never mind that when the Indian state claims that
>>>> Kashmir is
>>>> > a part of India, Kashmiris should also be Indian citizens and thus
>>>> their
>>>> > legitimate grievances must be looked at. If Indian state were to
>>>> consist of
>>>> > Indian people, would Kashmiris have been asking for azadi after 63
>>>> years of
>>>> > Indian Independence?
>>>> >
>>>> > It is the Indian state which decides what is terrorism and what is
>>>> not. And
>>>> > the media has perfectly colluded with it. The end result is this. Any
>>>> attack
>>>> > carried out by Ajmal Amir Kasab or his compatriots among the Maoists
>>>> is an
>>>> > act of terrorism. But any riot or pogrom organized by the members of
>>>> > political parties/social organizations, be it 1984, 1989, 1992-93 or
>>>> 2002
>>>> > are not acts of terrorism. Why does no one in this state: be it the
>>>> > legislature, the judiciary or the executive state that these riots are
>>>> also
>>>> > acts of terrorism?
>>>> >
>>>> > The Indian state decides that people have to be displaced from their
>>>> homes
>>>> > for the 'larger good of the country' and 'national interest'. Why is
>>>> it so
>>>> > that only the Indian state has the right to decide what is
>>>> development? We
>>>> > have chosen the govt., but not necessarily the state, for the state we
>>>> were
>>>> > born to is our destiny, whether we like it or not. Did God give the
>>>> right to
>>>> > the state to decide what is development for us? How come the state has
>>>> > appropriated the right to decide what is good for me and what is not,
>>>> > without even discussing with me?
>>>> >
>>>> > If the Indian state were really comparable with the Indian people,
>>>> India
>>>> > would not have been suffering from the twin scourges of Naxalism and
>>>> > terrorism (in its comprehensive sense). Instead, the Indian state just
>>>> > consists of elites who won't be displaced irrespective of any
>>>> elections, and
>>>> > will keep deciding on agendas only to destroy the lives of the poor
>>>> for
>>>> > their own benefit. In return, the poor are only expected to get hapy
>>>> at the
>>>> > crumbs thrown at them by the state, while remaining quiet and making
>>>> > 'sacrifices in the cause of national interest', as Nehru said to those
>>>> who
>>>> > lost their lands for the Hirakud Dam.
>>>> >
>>>> > The Indian state is not, was not and if it goes on like this, will
>>>> never be
>>>> > equal to the Indian people. It is just an Indian version of the
>>>> British
>>>> > Empire.
>>>> >
>>>> > Rakesh
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rajen.
>>>> _________________________________________
>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>>> Critiques & Collaborations
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rajen.
>>
>>
>

-- 
Rajen.