[Reader-list] against continued repression of the people of Kashmir

Sun Jul 11 20:20:54 IST 2010

Rajen,

This is not a court of law that you need to give me a justification. It is
been observed how discreetly you make extremely communal comments on the
people on this list. I need not say anything more.

Anupam

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:

> Anupam, though the intellectual in hindu for being secular have been at the
> game of playing with words of talking about the abhinav bharath, I neither
> support this organisation nor do i conclude that it is of sangh parivar,
> unlike many ids who post on regular basis the "innocense' of terror accused,
> none have posted any such messages or posts but all have only reiterated
> that the investigations be over to arrive at the facts, whereas, in other
> cases, be it encounters or arrests, many ids seem to be keen on posting the
> "facts' of the accused being innocent even at investigation stage.
> Amusingly, even after such a long time, only the partisan media men and
> women are at the game of discredit of the accused of the organisation.!
> regards, rajen.
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:00 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Rajen ji,
>>
>> Anupam supports naxal violence is a indeed the inference i was expecting
>> from you. You support Abhinav Bharat, therefore i become a supporter of
>> Naxal violence. Condemning military violence in areas like Chattisgarh or
>> Manipur or Kashmir doesnt turn into a naxal supporter. How convenient it is
>> for you making such allegations while questioning others' faiths and
>> beliefs!! really
>>
>> Anupam
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
>> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Good response, Kshemendra ji,
>>> it is rather at times amusing when the "muslims" tend to see that they
>>> are
>>> not part of the state when it comes to responsible citizenship, but when
>>> it
>>> is rights they seem to be the first to claim it, same as the false claims
>>> of
>>> "intellectual" anmongst the citizens of this nation. Perhaps the poplous
>>> nature of the "state' and the expectations of individuals of the
>>> citizenship, when not met, the methods used to strategise and seek
>>> redressal
>>> by being naxals, by being terrorists is another facet of democratic life
>>> where dissent stoops to the level of violence and the forces which are
>>> meant
>>> to be used to control such violence are attacked and the credibility is
>>> sought to be destroyed by the traitors of democratic rule, be it
>>> naxalites,
>>> or fanatics of any faith to bring in their kind of rule of faith.?
>>> Anupam has been supportive of naxal violence and rakesh with his at times
>>> treaties sermoning about the virtues of democracy but basically, what
>>> surprises me most is all these citizens do not seem to have any
>>> responsibility to the society they live in, the nation that is theirs,
>>> but
>>> wish to be the modern day arundhatis or naipals.!
>>> No doubt citizens choose their elected representatives, but they are
>>> getting
>>> what they deserve, if some only are about rights of citizens, where
>>> irresponsible judges retired from posts, who have been violators of all
>>> that
>>> is judicial rule the role of being chairmen of commissions, if corrupt
>>> can
>>> get away with media helping them out with titillation and sensation and
>>> trps, democracy has been shaken at the very roots by the men and women in
>>> media who seem to have an attitude that they are media, so above all
>>> laws.!
>>> regards, rajen.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>> > Dear Rakesh
>>> >
>>> > Thank you for sharing your interpretations of what is the "State" and
>>> the
>>> > 'basicality' of what you see in Kashmir and what you see the "State"
>>> (as
>>> > interpreted by you) doing to and doing with India and it's people.
>>> >
>>> > What you have quoted of me is incomplete. What I said was:
>>> > "The State is little else than the People. The ills of the State are
>>> the
>>> > ills of it's People"
>>> >
>>> > Did you see that? I have mentioned the 'ills' of the State.
>>> >
>>> > Please register what was said in it's entirety. Quoting selectively is
>>> not
>>> > done. Especially when it changes the full conveyance.
>>> >
>>> > I do not know how to respond to your trite summation of the "State" and
>>> > your explaining it away with "the Indian state just consists of elites
>>> who
>>> > won't be displaced irrespective of any elections, and will keep
>>> deciding on
>>> > agendas only to destroy the lives of the poor for their own benefit" or
>>> your
>>> > reducing it to only being recognised through it's "ills" (which are the
>>> > "ills" of the people.)
>>> >
>>> > All that might sound impressive in some 'academic' paper or
>>> 'journalistic'
>>> > piece but does not count for much when taking a comprehensive view and
>>> > making realistic solution-driven evaluations. I wonder how much you
>>> know of
>>> > India and it's constantly changing (power) structures.
>>> >
>>> > I also do not know how to respond to your shallow views on and
>>> > understanding of Kashmir.
>>> >
>>> > Let me therefore, once again, say to you:
>>> >
>>> > "   Thank you Rakesh for sharing your interpretations of what is the
>>> > "State" and the 'basicality' of what you see in Kashmir and what you
>>> see the
>>> > "State" (as interpreted by you) doing to and doing with India and it's
>>> > people."
>>> >
>>> > Or, let me say that, compared to me, you are talking on a different
>>> plane
>>> > altogether where I struggle to make sense of what you are saying. My
>>> > shortcomings.
>>> >
>>> > Or, let us say that I have expressed my viewpoint and you have
>>> expressed
>>> > yours and leave it at that.
>>> >
>>> > Kshmendra
>>> >
>>> > --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
>>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] against continued repression of the people
>>> of
>>> > Kashmir
>>> > To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
>>> > Cc: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail.com>, "sarai list" <
>>> > reader-list at sarai.net>
>>> > Date: Sunday, July 11, 2010, 4:42 PM
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Kshamendra
>>> >
>>> > I have one point to make. You said that a state is nothing but its'
>>> people.
>>> > How I wish that were to be true! But it is not.
>>> >
>>> > The Indian state is not necessarily the Indian people. And this is not
>>> just
>>> > essayed in one instance. It is seen in numerous instances. In general,
>>> a
>>> > state is just an entity which has the only authority to conduct
>>> violence
>>> > (legitimately) in order to protect the life of its citizens, and that
>>> is as
>>> > per theory. In reality, the state is seen to be only protecting itself
>>> and
>>> > not necessarily those who have given up their idea of violence in order
>>> to
>>> > seek protection.
>>> >
>>> > The Indian state consists of the legislature, executive and the
>>> judiciary
>>> > as well as the agencies which can implement the will of the state such
>>> as
>>> > the police, the army, the CRPF and so on.
>>> >
>>> > For example, what is seen in Kashmir is basically this. The Indian
>>> state is
>>> > hardly bothered about Kashmiris, and instead what we see is the idea
>>> that
>>> > Indian state should shed blood in Kashmir, if need be, to protect
>>> itself
>>> > from breaking. Never mind that when the Indian state claims that
>>> Kashmir is
>>> > a part of India, Kashmiris should also be Indian citizens and thus
>>> their
>>> > legitimate grievances must be looked at. If Indian state were to
>>> consist of
>>> > Indian people, would Kashmiris have been asking for azadi after 63
>>> years of
>>> > Indian Independence?
>>> >
>>> > It is the Indian state which decides what is terrorism and what is not.
>>> And
>>> > the media has perfectly colluded with it. The end result is this. Any
>>> attack
>>> > carried out by Ajmal Amir Kasab or his compatriots among the Maoists is
>>> an
>>> > act of terrorism. But any riot or pogrom organized by the members of
>>> > political parties/social organizations, be it 1984, 1989, 1992-93 or
>>> 2002
>>> > are not acts of terrorism. Why does no one in this state: be it the
>>> > legislature, the judiciary or the executive state that these riots are
>>> also
>>> > acts of terrorism?
>>> >
>>> > The Indian state decides that people have to be displaced from their
>>> homes
>>> > for the 'larger good of the country' and 'national interest'. Why is it
>>> so
>>> > that only the Indian state has the right to decide what is development?
>>> We
>>> > have chosen the govt., but not necessarily the state, for the state we
>>> were
>>> > born to is our destiny, whether we like it or not. Did God give the
>>> right to
>>> > the state to decide what is development for us? How come the state has
>>> > appropriated the right to decide what is good for me and what is not,
>>> > without even discussing with me?
>>> >
>>> > If the Indian state were really comparable with the Indian people,
>>> India
>>> > would not have been suffering from the twin scourges of Naxalism and
>>> > terrorism (in its comprehensive sense). Instead, the Indian state just
>>> > consists of elites who won't be displaced irrespective of any
>>> elections, and
>>> > will keep deciding on agendas only to destroy the lives of the poor for
>>> > their own benefit. In return, the poor are only expected to get hapy at
>>> the
>>> > crumbs thrown at them by the state, while remaining quiet and making
>>> > 'sacrifices in the cause of national interest', as Nehru said to those
>>> who
>>> > lost their lands for the Hirakud Dam.
>>> >
>>> > The Indian state is not, was not and if it goes on like this, will
>>> never be
>>> > equal to the Indian people. It is just an Indian version of the British
>>> > Empire.
>>> >
>>> > Rakesh
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _________________________________________
>>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>> > Critiques & Collaborations
>>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>> > subscribe in the subject header.
>>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rajen.
>>> _________________________________________
>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>> Critiques & Collaborations
>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>> subscribe in the subject header.
>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rajen.
>
>