[Reader-list] Reg: Mail on nationalism and Gujarat's secular development (And my experiences)

Sun Jun 13 18:39:39 IST 2010

To my knowledge, Mumtaz Ali is a member of the Legislative Council.

As for India telling me, I didn't say that. What I said about Nitish is
verbatim what the Biharis say about him. And as for BJP, do find me out some
candidate the BJP had asked to stand from any constituency in Karnataka or
Madhya Pradesh (for an election where people elect, not Councils and Rajya
Sabha where people like Vijay Mallya can also enter).

And as for Mumtaz Ali, he is a nominated member of the Legislative Council
by the Governor of Karnataka, not an elected representative of people. This
for a party which used to chide Manmohan Singh for his inability to contest
any election.

And yes, the BJP does have a Muslim MP in Shahnawaz Husain. He won because
Kishanganj has a high percentage of Muslim population, and BJP had no choice
but to put up a Muslim candidate, as otherwise caste would have taken shape
and no caste has high dominance.

I am not saying the BJP will not put up a Muslim candidate at all. After
all, India's demography is such that it will force BJP to put up Muslim
candidates, even if they don't like it, so also India's polity. But then, if
possible, they would certainly not like to do it, based on their ideology.
And Gujarat and Karnataka assembly elections are prime examples.

And we do know the strength of these Muslims in the party and also their
position when pogroms like 2002 Gujarat occur.

Rakesh

On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:

> Did they tell you this from all over India, Rakesh ji.? By the way,Prof.
> Mumtaj Ali Khan, is minister of wakf and muslim welfare, in karnataka, and
> is a muslim. At the district level many are from other faiths and please be
> my guest as i have been studying this aspect of societal change in karnataka
> for the last fifteen years as many of other castes and faiths gravitate
> towards power and the party in power. !
> regards,
> rajen
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> The fact is that Nitish is the face on which the BJP today can contest.
>> The BJP can't contest on its own in Bihar even if it wanted to simply
>> because they lack OBC leaders with the possible exception of Sushil Kumar
>> Modi, the deputy CM of Bihar, who lacks charishma of the kind Nitish has.
>> People have respect for Nitish Kumar for what he has done.
>>
>> As for faiths, I don't disagree with you, but then the fact is that BJP
>> only gave ticket to Muslims in Bihar because there it had to prove it was
>> 'secular'. In Gujarat and Karnataka, it didn't give ticket to a single
>> Muslim for any assembly or Lok Sabha poll, so also in Madhya Pradesh. People
>> know its' real intentions, at least the Muslims do.
>>
>> Rakesh
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
>> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Rakesh,
>>> your post made very interesting reading material for me, thanks. But the
>>> fact is Nitish by himself without the support of BJP was a non starter when
>>> Lalu had mis managed the state for decades, and again, it is BJP which lacks
>>> the savvy sense of being aloof and not trying to break the shackles of
>>> getting labelled as communal, the propaganda against it being powerful,
>>> leaders not active enough to manage this negative perception pressed for
>>> years in the minds of population. Though there are many more MPs from
>>> different faiths including Islam in BJP, the efforts to make a conscious
>>> efforts to be with ALL the citizens irrespective of their faith in
>>> governance is needed to more urgently correct the perception, which does not
>>> come by tokenism of advertisements of secularism, but by practice at the
>>> grass root level.
>>> regards,
>>> rajen.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>> First of all, I am excited to be back posting on Sarai after a long
>>>> time. I
>>>> had been to Araria in Bihar for 20 days with regard to an internship
>>>> doing
>>>> social audit of MNREGA (Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment
>>>> Guarantee
>>>> Act) in two panchayats of Araria district. I enjoyed the experience, and
>>>> was
>>>> also sad and pained to see the levels of corruption in the scheme. The
>>>> social audits also consisted of public hearings where the problems and
>>>> compalints of citizens were brought to the fore among the district
>>>> officials
>>>> who have started acting against the complaints made against officials. I
>>>> also realized the importance of MNREGA particularly in the rural
>>>> backgrounds
>>>> of this diverse nation of ours where this scheme could reverse not only
>>>> the
>>>> social and economic but also the political dynamics of our nation, and
>>>> certainly wish it succeeds.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I would like to say that my perception of Nitish Kumar has
>>>> certainly
>>>> changed in some extent. Earlier I thought that the rural populace was
>>>> not
>>>> interested and also the Muslims, but at least at the ground level,
>>>> though
>>>> with a limited experience of groundwork, I did find Muslims actually
>>>> liking
>>>> Nitish Kumar's rule (the places I went to had up to 90% of Muslims),
>>>> though
>>>> they certainly didn't approve of the BJP. Ironically, the poor however
>>>> found
>>>> that the bureaucracy was more corrupt under Nitish's rule as compared to
>>>> the
>>>> Lalu rule, which gave them a sense of dignity. Also, the fact that
>>>> Nitish is
>>>> completely hamstrung in the implementation of land reforms and higher
>>>> education reform reports shows that he is still held as a puppet by his
>>>> MLA's and the BJP.
>>>>
>>>> Coming back to nationalism and the mail Bipin bhai sent, I would say
>>>> that
>>>> nationalism is something not only me but the great Rabindranath Tagore
>>>> was
>>>> himself against. Nationalism is something which has destroyed Israel
>>>> itself.
>>>> Tagore was against Gandhi on many ideas, and one of them was
>>>> nationalism,
>>>> even though Gandhi's own idea of nationalism was something Ashish Nandy
>>>> described as 'leading to internationalism' and hardly involved violence
>>>> of
>>>> any kind. The reason was something we should all understand. Nationalism
>>>> thrives on the feeling that one should place the nation-state before
>>>> oneself. This is a highly dubious stand simply because a nation-state is
>>>> not
>>>> what Bipin bhai may think it to be.
>>>>
>>>> A nation-state, in an ideal case should mean a collection of people who
>>>> have
>>>> decided to live together, devising a commonly understood way of
>>>> administration with minimum differences amongst them while having
>>>> decided
>>>> so. It is not the case. A nation-state simply means an authority which
>>>> has
>>>> the legitimate right to indulging in violence upon its' own citizens and
>>>> others who act against the state. The problem with this is that the
>>>> threat
>>>> lies that the nation-state or those who control it can simply do as they
>>>> wish and attack those who stop them in their steps, terming it as
>>>> anti-state, and others are simply expected to follow it. Also, the
>>>> violence
>>>> of the state is justified and supposed to be taken as the verdict
>>>> without
>>>> ever questioning it. Nationalism has dangers of its own. Moreover,
>>>> violence
>>>> can't be justified in the name of protecting a state because the state
>>>> may
>>>> be oppressive, and the best option may be to throw off the state.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, to state that nationalism is justified and would lead to
>>>> development is travesty. Development should be for the people and not
>>>> for
>>>> those who control the nation-state and other sections who benefit from
>>>> it
>>>> where the major section of the population has to only suffer and not
>>>> have
>>>> the ability to change the situation. Naxalism is one result of what
>>>> happens
>>>> when this is the case. What will help the country is not nationalism,
>>>> but
>>>> instead a pro-people outlook which will guide the development process
>>>> and
>>>> help bring peace and prosperity to the citizens. Hence, let us stop
>>>> bragging
>>>> about nationalism here itself.
>>>>
>>>> Am fine sharing things with you in person (on my gmail id) on my trip to
>>>> Araria, as this may not be the appropriate forum to do so.
>>>>
>>>> And happy to be back. Probably one of the few reasons I enjoy my dreary
>>>> life
>>>> in IIT, is Sarai.
>>>>
>>>> Rakesh
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rajen.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rajen.
>
>