[Reader-list] Reg: Mail on nationalism and Gujarat's secular development (And my experiences)

Sun Jun 13 18:56:54 IST 2010

Rakesh, i appreciate your stubborn opinion, but do not agree with it, for
the simple reason, grass root realities are again perceptions.!
rajen.

On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> wrote:

> To my knowledge, Mumtaz Ali is a member of the Legislative Council.
>
> As for India telling me, I didn't say that. What I said about Nitish is
> verbatim what the Biharis say about him. And as for BJP, do find me out some
> candidate the BJP had asked to stand from any constituency in Karnataka or
> Madhya Pradesh (for an election where people elect, not Councils and Rajya
> Sabha where people like Vijay Mallya can also enter).
>
> And as for Mumtaz Ali, he is a nominated member of the Legislative Council
> by the Governor of Karnataka, not an elected representative of people. This
> for a party which used to chide Manmohan Singh for his inability to contest
> any election.
>
> And yes, the BJP does have a Muslim MP in Shahnawaz Husain. He won because
> Kishanganj has a high percentage of Muslim population, and BJP had no choice
> but to put up a Muslim candidate, as otherwise caste would have taken shape
> and no caste has high dominance.
>
> I am not saying the BJP will not put up a Muslim candidate at all. After
> all, India's demography is such that it will force BJP to put up Muslim
> candidates, even if they don't like it, so also India's polity. But then, if
> possible, they would certainly not like to do it, based on their ideology.
> And Gujarat and Karnataka assembly elections are prime examples.
>
> And we do know the strength of these Muslims in the party and also their
> position when pogroms like 2002 Gujarat occur.
>
> Rakesh
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Did they tell you this from all over India, Rakesh ji.? By the way,Prof.
>> Mumtaj Ali Khan, is minister of wakf and muslim welfare, in karnataka, and
>> is a muslim. At the district level many are from other faiths and please be
>> my guest as i have been studying this aspect of societal change in karnataka
>> for the last fifteen years as many of other castes and faiths gravitate
>> towards power and the party in power. !
>> regards,
>> rajen
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> The fact is that Nitish is the face on which the BJP today can contest.
>>> The BJP can't contest on its own in Bihar even if it wanted to simply
>>> because they lack OBC leaders with the possible exception of Sushil Kumar
>>> Modi, the deputy CM of Bihar, who lacks charishma of the kind Nitish has.
>>> People have respect for Nitish Kumar for what he has done.
>>>
>>> As for faiths, I don't disagree with you, but then the fact is that BJP
>>> only gave ticket to Muslims in Bihar because there it had to prove it was
>>> 'secular'. In Gujarat and Karnataka, it didn't give ticket to a single
>>> Muslim for any assembly or Lok Sabha poll, so also in Madhya Pradesh. People
>>> know its' real intentions, at least the Muslims do.
>>>
>>> Rakesh
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
>>> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rakesh,
>>>> your post made very interesting reading material for me, thanks. But the
>>>> fact is Nitish by himself without the support of BJP was a non starter when
>>>> Lalu had mis managed the state for decades, and again, it is BJP which lacks
>>>> the savvy sense of being aloof and not trying to break the shackles of
>>>> getting labelled as communal, the propaganda against it being powerful,
>>>> leaders not active enough to manage this negative perception pressed for
>>>> years in the minds of population. Though there are many more MPs from
>>>> different faiths including Islam in BJP, the efforts to make a conscious
>>>> efforts to be with ALL the citizens irrespective of their faith in
>>>> governance is needed to more urgently correct the perception, which does not
>>>> come by tokenism of advertisements of secularism, but by practice at the
>>>> grass root level.
>>>> regards,
>>>> rajen.
>>>>
>>>>   On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all, I am excited to be back posting on Sarai after a long
>>>>> time. I
>>>>> had been to Araria in Bihar for 20 days with regard to an internship
>>>>> doing
>>>>> social audit of MNREGA (Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment
>>>>> Guarantee
>>>>> Act) in two panchayats of Araria district. I enjoyed the experience,
>>>>> and was
>>>>> also sad and pained to see the levels of corruption in the scheme. The
>>>>> social audits also consisted of public hearings where the problems and
>>>>> compalints of citizens were brought to the fore among the district
>>>>> officials
>>>>> who have started acting against the complaints made against officials.
>>>>> I
>>>>> also realized the importance of MNREGA particularly in the rural
>>>>> backgrounds
>>>>> of this diverse nation of ours where this scheme could reverse not only
>>>>> the
>>>>> social and economic but also the political dynamics of our nation, and
>>>>> certainly wish it succeeds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I would like to say that my perception of Nitish Kumar has
>>>>> certainly
>>>>> changed in some extent. Earlier I thought that the rural populace was
>>>>> not
>>>>> interested and also the Muslims, but at least at the ground level,
>>>>> though
>>>>> with a limited experience of groundwork, I did find Muslims actually
>>>>> liking
>>>>> Nitish Kumar's rule (the places I went to had up to 90% of Muslims),
>>>>> though
>>>>> they certainly didn't approve of the BJP. Ironically, the poor however
>>>>> found
>>>>> that the bureaucracy was more corrupt under Nitish's rule as compared
>>>>> to the
>>>>> Lalu rule, which gave them a sense of dignity. Also, the fact that
>>>>> Nitish is
>>>>> completely hamstrung in the implementation of land reforms and higher
>>>>> education reform reports shows that he is still held as a puppet by his
>>>>> MLA's and the BJP.
>>>>>
>>>>> Coming back to nationalism and the mail Bipin bhai sent, I would say
>>>>> that
>>>>> nationalism is something not only me but the great Rabindranath Tagore
>>>>> was
>>>>> himself against. Nationalism is something which has destroyed Israel
>>>>> itself.
>>>>> Tagore was against Gandhi on many ideas, and one of them was
>>>>> nationalism,
>>>>> even though Gandhi's own idea of nationalism was something Ashish Nandy
>>>>> described as 'leading to internationalism' and hardly involved violence
>>>>> of
>>>>> any kind. The reason was something we should all understand.
>>>>> Nationalism
>>>>> thrives on the feeling that one should place the nation-state before
>>>>> oneself. This is a highly dubious stand simply because a nation-state
>>>>> is not
>>>>> what Bipin bhai may think it to be.
>>>>>
>>>>> A nation-state, in an ideal case should mean a collection of people who
>>>>> have
>>>>> decided to live together, devising a commonly understood way of
>>>>> administration with minimum differences amongst them while having
>>>>> decided
>>>>> so. It is not the case. A nation-state simply means an authority which
>>>>> has
>>>>> the legitimate right to indulging in violence upon its' own citizens
>>>>> and
>>>>> others who act against the state. The problem with this is that the
>>>>> threat
>>>>> lies that the nation-state or those who control it can simply do as
>>>>> they
>>>>> wish and attack those who stop them in their steps, terming it as
>>>>> anti-state, and others are simply expected to follow it. Also, the
>>>>> violence
>>>>> of the state is justified and supposed to be taken as the verdict
>>>>> without
>>>>> ever questioning it. Nationalism has dangers of its own. Moreover,
>>>>> violence
>>>>> can't be justified in the name of protecting a state because the state
>>>>> may
>>>>> be oppressive, and the best option may be to throw off the state.
>>>>>
>>>>> Therefore, to state that nationalism is justified and would lead to
>>>>> development is travesty. Development should be for the people and not
>>>>> for
>>>>> those who control the nation-state and other sections who benefit from
>>>>> it
>>>>> where the major section of the population has to only suffer and not
>>>>> have
>>>>> the ability to change the situation. Naxalism is one result of what
>>>>> happens
>>>>> when this is the case. What will help the country is not nationalism,
>>>>> but
>>>>> instead a pro-people outlook which will guide the development process
>>>>> and
>>>>> help bring peace and prosperity to the citizens. Hence, let us stop
>>>>> bragging
>>>>> about nationalism here itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am fine sharing things with you in person (on my gmail id) on my trip
>>>>> to
>>>>> Araria, as this may not be the appropriate forum to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>> And happy to be back. Probably one of the few reasons I enjoy my dreary
>>>>> life
>>>>> in IIT, is Sarai.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rakesh
>>>>> _________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rajen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rajen.
>>
>>
>

-- 
Rajen.