[Reader-list] Reg: Mail on nationalism and Gujarat's secular development (And my experiences)

Sun Jun 13 18:58:34 IST 2010

Great. Thanks for that. Now I wish to know what is reality?

Rakesh

On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:56 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:

> Rakesh, i appreciate your stubborn opinion, but do not agree with it, for
> the simple reason, grass root realities are again perceptions.!
> rajen.
>
> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> To my knowledge, Mumtaz Ali is a member of the Legislative Council.
>>
>> As for India telling me, I didn't say that. What I said about Nitish is
>> verbatim what the Biharis say about him. And as for BJP, do find me out some
>> candidate the BJP had asked to stand from any constituency in Karnataka or
>> Madhya Pradesh (for an election where people elect, not Councils and Rajya
>> Sabha where people like Vijay Mallya can also enter).
>>
>> And as for Mumtaz Ali, he is a nominated member of the Legislative Council
>> by the Governor of Karnataka, not an elected representative of people. This
>> for a party which used to chide Manmohan Singh for his inability to contest
>> any election.
>>
>> And yes, the BJP does have a Muslim MP in Shahnawaz Husain. He won because
>> Kishanganj has a high percentage of Muslim population, and BJP had no choice
>> but to put up a Muslim candidate, as otherwise caste would have taken shape
>> and no caste has high dominance.
>>
>> I am not saying the BJP will not put up a Muslim candidate at all. After
>> all, India's demography is such that it will force BJP to put up Muslim
>> candidates, even if they don't like it, so also India's polity. But then, if
>> possible, they would certainly not like to do it, based on their ideology.
>> And Gujarat and Karnataka assembly elections are prime examples.
>>
>> And we do know the strength of these Muslims in the party and also their
>> position when pogroms like 2002 Gujarat occur.
>>
>> Rakesh
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
>> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Did they tell you this from all over India, Rakesh ji.? By the way,Prof.
>>> Mumtaj Ali Khan, is minister of wakf and muslim welfare, in karnataka, and
>>> is a muslim. At the district level many are from other faiths and please be
>>> my guest as i have been studying this aspect of societal change in karnataka
>>> for the last fifteen years as many of other castes and faiths gravitate
>>> towards power and the party in power. !
>>> regards,
>>> rajen
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> The fact is that Nitish is the face on which the BJP today can contest.
>>>> The BJP can't contest on its own in Bihar even if it wanted to simply
>>>> because they lack OBC leaders with the possible exception of Sushil Kumar
>>>> Modi, the deputy CM of Bihar, who lacks charishma of the kind Nitish has.
>>>> People have respect for Nitish Kumar for what he has done.
>>>>
>>>> As for faiths, I don't disagree with you, but then the fact is that BJP
>>>> only gave ticket to Muslims in Bihar because there it had to prove it was
>>>> 'secular'. In Gujarat and Karnataka, it didn't give ticket to a single
>>>> Muslim for any assembly or Lok Sabha poll, so also in Madhya Pradesh. People
>>>> know its' real intentions, at least the Muslims do.
>>>>
>>>> Rakesh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
>>>> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rakesh,
>>>>> your post made very interesting reading material for me, thanks. But
>>>>> the fact is Nitish by himself without the support of BJP was a non starter
>>>>> when Lalu had mis managed the state for decades, and again, it is BJP which
>>>>> lacks the savvy sense of being aloof and not trying to break the shackles of
>>>>> getting labelled as communal, the propaganda against it being powerful,
>>>>> leaders not active enough to manage this negative perception pressed for
>>>>> years in the minds of population. Though there are many more MPs from
>>>>> different faiths including Islam in BJP, the efforts to make a conscious
>>>>> efforts to be with ALL the citizens irrespective of their faith in
>>>>> governance is needed to more urgently correct the perception, which does not
>>>>> come by tokenism of advertisements of secularism, but by practice at the
>>>>> grass root level.
>>>>> regards,
>>>>> rajen.
>>>>>
>>>>>   On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Rakesh Iyer <
>>>>> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hi all
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First of all, I am excited to be back posting on Sarai after a long
>>>>>> time. I
>>>>>> had been to Araria in Bihar for 20 days with regard to an internship
>>>>>> doing
>>>>>> social audit of MNREGA (Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment
>>>>>> Guarantee
>>>>>> Act) in two panchayats of Araria district. I enjoyed the experience,
>>>>>> and was
>>>>>> also sad and pained to see the levels of corruption in the scheme. The
>>>>>> social audits also consisted of public hearings where the problems and
>>>>>> compalints of citizens were brought to the fore among the district
>>>>>> officials
>>>>>> who have started acting against the complaints made against officials.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> also realized the importance of MNREGA particularly in the rural
>>>>>> backgrounds
>>>>>> of this diverse nation of ours where this scheme could reverse not
>>>>>> only the
>>>>>> social and economic but also the political dynamics of our nation, and
>>>>>> certainly wish it succeeds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, I would like to say that my perception of Nitish Kumar has
>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>> changed in some extent. Earlier I thought that the rural populace was
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> interested and also the Muslims, but at least at the ground level,
>>>>>> though
>>>>>> with a limited experience of groundwork, I did find Muslims actually
>>>>>> liking
>>>>>> Nitish Kumar's rule (the places I went to had up to 90% of Muslims),
>>>>>> though
>>>>>> they certainly didn't approve of the BJP. Ironically, the poor however
>>>>>> found
>>>>>> that the bureaucracy was more corrupt under Nitish's rule as compared
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>> Lalu rule, which gave them a sense of dignity. Also, the fact that
>>>>>> Nitish is
>>>>>> completely hamstrung in the implementation of land reforms and higher
>>>>>> education reform reports shows that he is still held as a puppet by
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> MLA's and the BJP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Coming back to nationalism and the mail Bipin bhai sent, I would say
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> nationalism is something not only me but the great Rabindranath Tagore
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> himself against. Nationalism is something which has destroyed Israel
>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>> Tagore was against Gandhi on many ideas, and one of them was
>>>>>> nationalism,
>>>>>> even though Gandhi's own idea of nationalism was something Ashish
>>>>>> Nandy
>>>>>> described as 'leading to internationalism' and hardly involved
>>>>>> violence of
>>>>>> any kind. The reason was something we should all understand.
>>>>>> Nationalism
>>>>>> thrives on the feeling that one should place the nation-state before
>>>>>> oneself. This is a highly dubious stand simply because a nation-state
>>>>>> is not
>>>>>> what Bipin bhai may think it to be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A nation-state, in an ideal case should mean a collection of people
>>>>>> who have
>>>>>> decided to live together, devising a commonly understood way of
>>>>>> administration with minimum differences amongst them while having
>>>>>> decided
>>>>>> so. It is not the case. A nation-state simply means an authority which
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> the legitimate right to indulging in violence upon its' own citizens
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> others who act against the state. The problem with this is that the
>>>>>> threat
>>>>>> lies that the nation-state or those who control it can simply do as
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> wish and attack those who stop them in their steps, terming it as
>>>>>> anti-state, and others are simply expected to follow it. Also, the
>>>>>> violence
>>>>>> of the state is justified and supposed to be taken as the verdict
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> ever questioning it. Nationalism has dangers of its own. Moreover,
>>>>>> violence
>>>>>> can't be justified in the name of protecting a state because the state
>>>>>> may
>>>>>> be oppressive, and the best option may be to throw off the state.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Therefore, to state that nationalism is justified and would lead to
>>>>>> development is travesty. Development should be for the people and not
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> those who control the nation-state and other sections who benefit from
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> where the major section of the population has to only suffer and not
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> the ability to change the situation. Naxalism is one result of what
>>>>>> happens
>>>>>> when this is the case. What will help the country is not nationalism,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> instead a pro-people outlook which will guide the development process
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> help bring peace and prosperity to the citizens. Hence, let us stop
>>>>>> bragging
>>>>>> about nationalism here itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am fine sharing things with you in person (on my gmail id) on my trip
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> Araria, as this may not be the appropriate forum to do so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And happy to be back. Probably one of the few reasons I enjoy my
>>>>>> dreary life
>>>>>> in IIT, is Sarai.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rakesh
>>>>>> _________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Rajen.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rajen.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rajen.
>
>