[Reader-list] Reg: Mail on nationalism and Gujarat's secular development (And my experiences)

Mon Jun 14 21:47:47 IST 2010

Rakesh, it is for you to seek, see, and understand, those who seek will
obtain, no spoon feeding the intellect.! make a Project visit to the place
and have a look, :-).

On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> wrote:

> Great. Thanks for that. Now I wish to know what is reality?
>
> Rakesh
>
> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:56 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Rakesh, i appreciate your stubborn opinion, but do not agree with it,
>> for the simple reason, grass root realities are again perceptions.!
>> rajen.
>>
>>   On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> To my knowledge, Mumtaz Ali is a member of the Legislative Council.
>>>
>>> As for India telling me, I didn't say that. What I said about Nitish is
>>> verbatim what the Biharis say about him. And as for BJP, do find me out some
>>> candidate the BJP had asked to stand from any constituency in Karnataka or
>>> Madhya Pradesh (for an election where people elect, not Councils and Rajya
>>> Sabha where people like Vijay Mallya can also enter).
>>>
>>> And as for Mumtaz Ali, he is a nominated member of the Legislative
>>> Council by the Governor of Karnataka, not an elected representative of
>>> people. This for a party which used to chide Manmohan Singh for his
>>> inability to contest any election.
>>>
>>> And yes, the BJP does have a Muslim MP in Shahnawaz Husain. He won
>>> because Kishanganj has a high percentage of Muslim population, and BJP had
>>> no choice but to put up a Muslim candidate, as otherwise caste would have
>>> taken shape and no caste has high dominance.
>>>
>>> I am not saying the BJP will not put up a Muslim candidate at all. After
>>> all, India's demography is such that it will force BJP to put up Muslim
>>> candidates, even if they don't like it, so also India's polity. But then, if
>>> possible, they would certainly not like to do it, based on their ideology.
>>> And Gujarat and Karnataka assembly elections are prime examples.
>>>
>>> And we do know the strength of these Muslims in the party and also their
>>> position when pogroms like 2002 Gujarat occur.
>>>
>>> Rakesh
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
>>> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Did they tell you this from all over India, Rakesh ji.? By the way,Prof.
>>>> Mumtaj Ali Khan, is minister of wakf and muslim welfare, in karnataka, and
>>>> is a muslim. At the district level many are from other faiths and please be
>>>> my guest as i have been studying this aspect of societal change in karnataka
>>>> for the last fifteen years as many of other castes and faiths gravitate
>>>> towards power and the party in power. !
>>>> regards,
>>>> rajen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The fact is that Nitish is the face on which the BJP today can contest.
>>>>> The BJP can't contest on its own in Bihar even if it wanted to simply
>>>>> because they lack OBC leaders with the possible exception of Sushil Kumar
>>>>> Modi, the deputy CM of Bihar, who lacks charishma of the kind Nitish has.
>>>>> People have respect for Nitish Kumar for what he has done.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for faiths, I don't disagree with you, but then the fact is that BJP
>>>>> only gave ticket to Muslims in Bihar because there it had to prove it was
>>>>> 'secular'. In Gujarat and Karnataka, it didn't give ticket to a single
>>>>> Muslim for any assembly or Lok Sabha poll, so also in Madhya Pradesh. People
>>>>> know its' real intentions, at least the Muslims do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rakesh
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
>>>>> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Rakesh,
>>>>>> your post made very interesting reading material for me, thanks. But
>>>>>> the fact is Nitish by himself without the support of BJP was a non starter
>>>>>> when Lalu had mis managed the state for decades, and again, it is BJP which
>>>>>> lacks the savvy sense of being aloof and not trying to break the shackles of
>>>>>> getting labelled as communal, the propaganda against it being powerful,
>>>>>> leaders not active enough to manage this negative perception pressed for
>>>>>> years in the minds of population. Though there are many more MPs from
>>>>>> different faiths including Islam in BJP, the efforts to make a conscious
>>>>>> efforts to be with ALL the citizens irrespective of their faith in
>>>>>> governance is needed to more urgently correct the perception, which does not
>>>>>> come by tokenism of advertisements of secularism, but by practice at the
>>>>>> grass root level.
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>> rajen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Rakesh Iyer <
>>>>>> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Hi all
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First of all, I am excited to be back posting on Sarai after a long
>>>>>>> time. I
>>>>>>> had been to Araria in Bihar for 20 days with regard to an internship
>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>> social audit of MNREGA (Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment
>>>>>>> Guarantee
>>>>>>> Act) in two panchayats of Araria district. I enjoyed the experience,
>>>>>>> and was
>>>>>>> also sad and pained to see the levels of corruption in the scheme.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> social audits also consisted of public hearings where the problems
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> compalints of citizens were brought to the fore among the district
>>>>>>> officials
>>>>>>> who have started acting against the complaints made against
>>>>>>> officials. I
>>>>>>> also realized the importance of MNREGA particularly in the rural
>>>>>>> backgrounds
>>>>>>> of this diverse nation of ours where this scheme could reverse not
>>>>>>> only the
>>>>>>> social and economic but also the political dynamics of our nation,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> certainly wish it succeeds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, I would like to say that my perception of Nitish Kumar has
>>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>>> changed in some extent. Earlier I thought that the rural populace was
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> interested and also the Muslims, but at least at the ground level,
>>>>>>> though
>>>>>>> with a limited experience of groundwork, I did find Muslims actually
>>>>>>> liking
>>>>>>> Nitish Kumar's rule (the places I went to had up to 90% of Muslims),
>>>>>>> though
>>>>>>> they certainly didn't approve of the BJP. Ironically, the poor
>>>>>>> however found
>>>>>>> that the bureaucracy was more corrupt under Nitish's rule as compared
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>> Lalu rule, which gave them a sense of dignity. Also, the fact that
>>>>>>> Nitish is
>>>>>>> completely hamstrung in the implementation of land reforms and higher
>>>>>>> education reform reports shows that he is still held as a puppet by
>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>> MLA's and the BJP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Coming back to nationalism and the mail Bipin bhai sent, I would say
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> nationalism is something not only me but the great Rabindranath
>>>>>>> Tagore was
>>>>>>> himself against. Nationalism is something which has destroyed Israel
>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>> Tagore was against Gandhi on many ideas, and one of them was
>>>>>>> nationalism,
>>>>>>> even though Gandhi's own idea of nationalism was something Ashish
>>>>>>> Nandy
>>>>>>> described as 'leading to internationalism' and hardly involved
>>>>>>> violence of
>>>>>>> any kind. The reason was something we should all understand.
>>>>>>> Nationalism
>>>>>>> thrives on the feeling that one should place the nation-state before
>>>>>>> oneself. This is a highly dubious stand simply because a nation-state
>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>> what Bipin bhai may think it to be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A nation-state, in an ideal case should mean a collection of people
>>>>>>> who have
>>>>>>> decided to live together, devising a commonly understood way of
>>>>>>> administration with minimum differences amongst them while having
>>>>>>> decided
>>>>>>> so. It is not the case. A nation-state simply means an authority
>>>>>>> which has
>>>>>>> the legitimate right to indulging in violence upon its' own citizens
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> others who act against the state. The problem with this is that the
>>>>>>> threat
>>>>>>> lies that the nation-state or those who control it can simply do as
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> wish and attack those who stop them in their steps, terming it as
>>>>>>> anti-state, and others are simply expected to follow it. Also, the
>>>>>>> violence
>>>>>>> of the state is justified and supposed to be taken as the verdict
>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>> ever questioning it. Nationalism has dangers of its own. Moreover,
>>>>>>> violence
>>>>>>> can't be justified in the name of protecting a state because the
>>>>>>> state may
>>>>>>> be oppressive, and the best option may be to throw off the state.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Therefore, to state that nationalism is justified and would lead to
>>>>>>> development is travesty. Development should be for the people and not
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> those who control the nation-state and other sections who benefit
>>>>>>> from it
>>>>>>> where the major section of the population has to only suffer and not
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> the ability to change the situation. Naxalism is one result of what
>>>>>>> happens
>>>>>>> when this is the case. What will help the country is not nationalism,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> instead a pro-people outlook which will guide the development process
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> help bring peace and prosperity to the citizens. Hence, let us stop
>>>>>>> bragging
>>>>>>> about nationalism here itself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am fine sharing things with you in person (on my gmail id) on my trip
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> Araria, as this may not be the appropriate forum to do so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And happy to be back. Probably one of the few reasons I enjoy my
>>>>>>> dreary life
>>>>>>> in IIT, is Sarai.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rakesh
>>>>>>> _________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Rajen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rajen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rajen.
>>
>>
>

-- 
Rajen.