[Reader-list] Liquid jihad

Thu Mar 18 19:55:01 IST 2010

Dear Rahul

Munir Attaullah is a very special person. A hedonist. A 'Malang'. And a brilliant 'Bridge' player.

Kshmendra 

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Liquid jihad
To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>, "Rakesh Iyer" <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
Cc: "reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 7:30 PM

Here is an article which is making a very important point, rather explicitly, which was implicit in my earlier message.
"But we do not want to leave India alone and let it live in peace. Not unless the Kashmir problem is solved to our satisfaction. However, is it not time we understood that all such attempts to ‘force’ India to the negotiating table and do our bidding have failed, and have little chance of succeeding in the future either? For, the reality today is not that solving the Kashmir problem is the prerequisite to peace and normalisation between India and Pakistan. It is the other way round. Once we have accepted that the old territorial basis of the dispute is now so much history, and that the real issue is the welfare of the Kashmiri people, then that will best be achieved slowly after we stop our cold war."
Read the full article here.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010/03/10/story_10-3-2010_pg3_2
The point that this article has not dwelled upon is that even with so much going wrong internally in Pakistan, it is still in Pakistan Army's interest to continue the cold war. At the very least everyone else should recognize that it is only in their interest.

From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
To: Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>; Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
Cc: reader-list <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 6:02:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Liquid jihad

Rahul wrote : "I am hopeful that ..........India and Pakistan can co-exist peacefully if not like good friends;and a solution to Kashmir can be worked out."

I second that hope with these words of Ali Sardar Jafri:

Jiyain Tamaam Haseenaane Khaibar-o-Lahore

Jiyein Tamaam Jawaanan-e-Janaat-e-kashmir

Ho Lub Pe Naghma-e-Mehr-o-Wafa ki Taabaani

Kitaab-e-Dil Pe Fakat Harf-e-Ishq Ho Tehreer. 

Kshmendra

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Liquid jihad
To: "Rakesh Iyer" <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>, "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: "reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 12:22 AM

Hi Rakesh, 
A small correction 
"And the monster which America created to destroy the Soviet Union "
If you read Ahmed Rashid's book about the Taliban you will find that Taliban was created by Pak establishment;it had nothing to do with Russian invasion in the beginning. America of course used it, and is guilty of continuing to support the military monetarily and politically.
Other than that, I disagree with Kshamendra regarding the degree,or nature, of support by the Pakistani people, though I agree with him about the magnitude of the problem.It is another matter that even a few can cause siginificant harm to India. The national narrative is managed by the power elite, just like it was done in America for Iraq war. In Pakistan;s case the national narrative is built around both religion and nationalism and that makes it doubly exploitative, but I am hopeful that with the Pakistani Army out of power India and Pakistan can co-exist peacefully if not like good friends;and a solution to Kashmir can be worked out.
The Pakistani civil society are the bigger stakeholder in this and they have to take the initiative. It is by no means an easy task because Pakistan army is firmly ensconced in the power structures and institutions of the country. To weed it out of power is probably as much, if not more, difficult than Indian army coming to power in India.
But at least we should be clear on what we want and what our priorities should be.

Thanks
Rahul

----- Original Message ----
From: Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
To: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: reader-list <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Wed, March 17, 2010 10:03:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Liquid jihad

Dear all

It would certainly be most unfortunate that a canard of lies would be spread
(as has been the practice of hawkish elements across nations, be it Narendra
Modi, George Bush or Osama Bin Laden) in order to generate passions,
breast-beating and calls for aggression and discarding of reconciliation to
sort out issues. And such a phenomena certainly calls for action on the
streets but in a non-violent manner. And the monster which America created
to destroy the Soviet Union has now turned to destroy its' creator and all
those who it thinks are the obstacles in the establishment of an Islamic
caliphate, be it Israel, India or Europe (though it would be wrong to say
that there are no genuine grievances among those who do become
'terrorists').

At this time, it requires further action by the civil society in Pakistan to
actually ensure that such elements don't gain more strength, and are
comprehensively defeated. The only hope of the entire world lies in this
society actually combating the dangerous voices of treachery and violence
(comprising of the dominant section of the Pakistan army, the ISI, leaders
who side with the army, and the jihadis, who are often described as
autonomous actors but can't survive without the support of the army and ISI,
as well as the clergy preaching violence against innocents). They have to be
attacked systematically on all fronts, be it ideologically or their capacity
to create havoc and wreck our lives. All this has to be tackled. And whether
we like it or not, at some point of time, force may be required to defend
oneself, though it can't be of the form which Bush unleashed on Iraq or
Afghanistan.

It is certainly time this lesson is given to Pakistan and nations start
moving in UN towards it with this objective in mind, instead of giving
massive funds which are not monitored and are only diverted towards the
purposes of the Army as the end-result.

Rakesh
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