[Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"

TaraPrakash taraprakash at gmail.com
Sun Oct 24 20:41:28 IST 2010


"it gives bullshit a bad name". Let us try giving bullshit a good name, your message was well written. Hope that does justice to the bull shit.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Pheeta Ram 
  To: TaraPrakash 
  Cc: Inder Salim ; reader-list 
  Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"


  Any act of self-defense against a tyrant is never violence. Any act by a tyrant, however seemingly benevolent, is always violence. 
  If i catch you by your throat and you try to push me in order to save yourself, would you like to call your act of self-defense 'violence'? You won't. It is the will to self-preservation that makes life possible on this earth. Try choking yourself to death, you can't for your own body shall rebel against you, it shall breathe itself out of your grasp. The right to rebellion is inbuilt in the human body, is always already given. Bodies don't lie!


  Remember, little David brought down the giant Goliath by stones. The mythical image of the stone-pelter goes back ages. Please don't bullshit about unholy 'violence-non-violence' dyad, it gives bullshit a bad name! 



  On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 1:35 AM, TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:

    But dear Inder Salim ji. I think I read that statement and expressed my skepticism. If Inder Salim ji says he does not support violence but glorifies stone pelters on any forum to do with Kashmiri separatists, I will have reason to be skeptical about his statement about nonviolence.

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Inder Salim" <indersalim at gmail.com>
    To: "reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
    Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 3:52 AM

    Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"



      But dear Taraprakash ji
      Shudda concludes

      "By the way, none of this means that I agree with Mr. SAS Geelani;s
      vision of the future. I am merely stating the facts that I  know and
      witnessed."




      Inbox
      X

      cashmeeri
      Geelani announced one Article of the Constitution of Free Kashmir - its "Liqu...

      2:38 PM (22 hours ago)

      Reply

      |
      Shuddhabrata Sengupta
      Well, on these grounds, Syed Ali Shah Geelani is more moderate than Mohandas ...

      3:03 PM (22 hours ago)
      Shuddhabrata SenguptaLoading...
      3:03 PM (22 hours ago)
      Shuddhabrata Sengupta
      to cashmeeri, Sarai

      show details 3:03 PM (22 hours ago)



      Well, on these grounds, Syed Ali Shah Geelani is more moderate than
      Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who advocated total prohibition,
      (regardless of whether one was or was not a believer in any religion)
      and was even against the drinking of tea. Does that mean that we think
      that his vision of 'Ram Rajya'  would be identical to what Aalok Aima
      considers to be an Islamic state?

      Incidentally, the state of Gujarat, has consistently imposed total
      prohibition in deference to M.K. Gandhi's ideas on prohibition for as
      long as it has existed as a state of the Indian Union. So, as per Mr.
      Aima's suggestion, would we now be prepared to admit that Mr. Modi's
      Gujarat (and the Gujarat of all his predecessors) is the closest we
      have come to having an 'islamic State' in India. Oh no, the closest we
      actually came to being an Islamic state in India was actually during
      Morarji Desai;s prime ministership, when some of the current champions
      of Hindutva were in power, when total prohibition was imposed on all
      of India. In fact we came even closer than the vision of SAS Geelani,
      which at least allows the 'non-believer' his or her daily tipple?
      Incidentally, Mr. Geelani went on to suggest that if a bottle of
      alchohl belongiing to a non believer was willingly or unwillingly
      damaged by a Muslim, then the state would have to compensate the
      non-believer for that damage. I haven;t quite heard of an Islamic
      state willing to pay people to drink alchohl (if their bottle has been
      damaged). He went on to quote an 'aayat' that said - "Muslims, do not
      insult even the idols (but) of the idol worshippers, for they will
      insult your God in return" and that the obligations of humanity are
      binding in our relations even with those we consider to be our
      enemies.  Interesting stuff, coming as it does from the man who is so
      offen held up as a figure of inflexible bigotry.

      By the way, none of this means that I agree with Mr. SAS Geelani;s
      vision of the future. I am merely stating the facts that I  know and
      witnessed.

      best

      Shuddha
      - Show quoted text -



      On 22-Oct-10, at 2:38 PM, cashmeeri wrote:

        - Show quoted text -

        Geelani announced one Article of the Constitution of Free Kashmir
      - its "Liquor Policy":

        http://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a176267.html

        "The system of justice in an independent Jammu and Kashmir would
      be such that even liquor would not be banned for non-Muslims. It would
      be prohibited fo......r the Muslim majority but if minorities feel
      they want to have liquor they would be allowed to consume as their
      right,"

        Hello!!!! Hello!!!!
        I thought it was going to be a Secular Free Kashmir. This sounds
      suspiciously like an Islamic Free Kashmir.

        Interesting prospect : Free Kashmir ..... no Non-Muslims ..... no Liquor

        Maybe it is the "Tourism Policy"

        ............. aalok aima



        _________________________________________
        reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
        Critiques & Collaborations
        To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
      subscribe in the subject header.
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      Shuddhabrata Sengupta
      The Sarai Programme at CSDS
      Raqs Media Collective
      shuddha at sarai.net
      www.sarai.net
      www.raqsmediacollective.net



      _________________________________________
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      Reply

      |
      TaraPrakash
      to Shuddhabrata, cashmeeri, Sarai

      show details 9:49 PM (15 hours ago)

      The point probably the mailer was making and you are missing is that
      the assumption is that SASG's "free" Kashmir will be primarily an
      Islamic state that will allow some unislamic things to happen. This is
      the same vision of Hindu Rashtra that Advani was selling to Indians
      when BJP was being seen as taking power away in India.

      That you don't necessarily agree with SASG makes no freaking sense to
      me especially when you have unequivocally blatantly unskeptically
      defended and justified SASG on this forum. By becoming a SASG stooge
      you have joined the ranks of RSS. By putting SASG and MK Gandhi in the
      same sentence you killed the embodiment of nonviolence once more, and
      joined RSS ranks in more than one way.





      ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" <shuddha at sarai.net>
      To: "cashmeeri" <cashmeeri at yahoo.com>
      Cc: "Sarai" <reader-list at sarai.net>
      Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 5:33 AM
      Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the
      Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"
      - Show quoted text -





        Well, on these grounds, Syed Ali Shah Geelani is more moderate
      than Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who advocated total prohibition,
      (regardless of whether one was or was not a believer in any religion)
      and was even against the drinking of tea. Does that mean that we
      think that his vision of 'Ram Rajya'  would be identical to what
      Aalok Aima considers to be an Islamic state?

        Incidentally, the state of Gujarat, has consistently imposed total
      prohibition in deference to M.K. Gandhi's ideas on prohibition for as
      long as it has existed as a state of the Indian Union. So, as per Mr.
      Aima's suggestion, would we now be prepared to admit that Mr. Modi's
      Gujarat (and the Gujarat of all his predecessors) is the closest we
      have come to having an 'islamic State' in India. Oh no, the closest
      we actually came to being an Islamic state in India was actually
      during Morarji Desai;s prime ministership, when some of the current
      champions of Hindutva were in power, when total prohibition was
      imposed on all of India. In fact we came even closer than the vision
      of SAS Geelani, which at least allows the 'non-believer' his or her
      daily tipple? Incidentally, Mr. Geelani went on to suggest that if a
      bottle of alchohl belongiing to a non believer was willingly or
      unwillingly damaged by a Muslim, then the state would have to
      compensate the non-believer for that damage. I haven;t quite heard of
      an Islamic state willing to pay people to drink alchohl (if their
      bottle has been damaged). He went on to quote an 'aayat' that said -
      "Muslims, do not insult even the idols (but) of the idol worshippers,
      for they will insult your God in return" and that the obligations of
      humanity are binding in our relations even with those we consider to
      be our enemies.  Interesting stuff, coming as it does from the man
      who is so offen held up as a figure of inflexible bigotry.

        By the way, none of this means that I agree with Mr. SAS Geelani;s
      vision of the future. I am merely stating the facts that I  know and
      witnessed.

        best

        Shuddha


        On 22-Oct-10, at 2:38 PM, cashmeeri wrote:


            Geelani announced one Article of the Constitution of Free
      Kashmir -  its "Liquor Policy":

            http://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a176267.html

            "The system of justice in an independent Jammu and Kashmir
      would be  such that even liquor would not be banned for non-Muslims.
      It would  be prohibited fo......r the Muslim majority but if
      minorities feel  they want to have liquor they would be allowed to
      consume as their  right,"

            Hello!!!! Hello!!!!
            I thought it was going to be a Secular Free Kashmir. This
      sounds suspiciously like an Islamic Free Kashmir.

            Interesting prospect : Free Kashmir ..... no Non-Muslims .....
      no  Liquor

            Maybe it is the "Tourism Policy"

            ............. aalok aima



            _________________________________________
            reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
            Critiques & Collaborations
            To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
      with subscribe in the subject header.
            To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
            List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>


        Shuddhabrata Sengupta
        The Sarai Programme at CSDS
        Raqs Media Collective
        shuddha at sarai.net
        www.sarai.net
        www.raqsmediacollective.net


        _________________________________________
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        Critiques & Collaborations
        To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
      subscribe in the subject header.
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      _________________________________________
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      To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
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      Reply

      Reply to all

      Forward




      On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:49 PM, TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:

        The point probably the mailer was making and you are missing is that the
        assumption is that SASG's "free" Kashmir will be primarily an Islamic state
        that will allow some unislamic things to happen. This is the same vision of
        Hindu Rashtra that Advani was selling to Indians when BJP was being seen as
        taking power away in India.

        That you don't necessarily agree with SASG makes no freaking sense to me
        especially when you have unequivocally blatantly unskeptically defended and
        justified SASG on this forum. By becoming a SASG stooge you have joined the
        ranks of RSS. By putting SASG and MK Gandhi in the same sentence you killed
        the embodiment of nonviolence once more, and joined RSS ranks in more than
        one way.





        ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta"
        <shuddha at sarai.net>
        To: "cashmeeri" <cashmeeri at yahoo.com>
        Cc: "Sarai" <reader-list at sarai.net>
        Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 5:33 AM
        Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the
        Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"





          Well, on these grounds, Syed Ali Shah Geelani is more moderate than
          Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who advocated total prohibition, (regardless of
          whether one was or was not a believer in any religion) and was even against
          the drinking of tea. Does that mean that we think that his vision of 'Ram
          Rajya' would be identical to what Aalok Aima considers to be an Islamic
          state?

          Incidentally, the state of Gujarat, has consistently imposed total
          prohibition in deference to M.K. Gandhi's ideas on prohibition for as long
          as it has existed as a state of the Indian Union. So, as per Mr. Aima's
          suggestion, would we now be prepared to admit that Mr. Modi's Gujarat (and
          the Gujarat of all his predecessors) is the closest we have come to having
          an 'islamic State' in India. Oh no, the closest we actually came to being
          an Islamic state in India was actually during Morarji Desai;s prime
          ministership, when some of the current champions of Hindutva were in power,
          when total prohibition was imposed on all of India. In fact we came even
          closer than the vision of SAS Geelani, which at least allows the
          'non-believer' his or her daily tipple? Incidentally, Mr. Geelani went on
          to suggest that if a bottle of alchohl belongiing to a non believer was
          willingly or unwillingly damaged by a Muslim, then the state would have to
          compensate the non-believer for that damage. I haven;t quite heard of an
          Islamic state willing to pay people to drink alchohl (if their bottle has
          been damaged). He went on to quote an 'aayat' that said - "Muslims, do not
          insult even the idols (but) of the idol worshippers, for they will insult
          your God in return" and that the obligations of humanity are binding in our
          relations even with those we consider to be our enemies. Interesting
          stuff, coming as it does from the man who is so offen held up as a figure
          of inflexible bigotry.

          By the way, none of this means that I agree with Mr. SAS Geelani;s vision
          of the future. I am merely stating the facts that I know and witnessed.

          best

          Shuddha


          On 22-Oct-10, at 2:38 PM, cashmeeri wrote:



            Geelani announced one Article of the Constitution of Free Kashmir - its
            "Liquor Policy":

            http://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a176267.html

            "The system of justice in an independent Jammu and Kashmir would be such
            that even liquor would not be banned for non-Muslims. It would be
            prohibited fo......r the Muslim majority but if minorities feel they want
            to have liquor they would be allowed to consume as their right,"

            Hello!!!! Hello!!!!
            I thought it was going to be a Secular Free Kashmir. This sounds
            suspiciously like an Islamic Free Kashmir.

            Interesting prospect : Free Kashmir ..... no Non-Muslims ..... no Liquor

            Maybe it is the "Tourism Policy"

            ............. aalok aima



            _________________________________________
            reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
            Critiques & Collaborations
            To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
            subscribe in the subject header.
            To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
            List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>


          Shuddhabrata Sengupta
          The Sarai Programme at CSDS
          Raqs Media Collective
          shuddha at sarai.net
          www.sarai.net
          www.raqsmediacollective.net


          _________________________________________
          reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
          Critiques & Collaborations
          To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
          subscribe in the subject header.
          To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
          List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>


        _________________________________________
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        in the subject header.
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      -- 

      http://indersalim.livejournal.com
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