[Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"
TaraPrakash
taraprakash at gmail.com
Sun Oct 24 20:41:28 IST 2010
"it gives bullshit a bad name". Let us try giving bullshit a good name, your message was well written. Hope that does justice to the bull shit.
----- Original Message -----
From: Pheeta Ram
To: TaraPrakash
Cc: Inder Salim ; reader-list
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"
Any act of self-defense against a tyrant is never violence. Any act by a tyrant, however seemingly benevolent, is always violence.
If i catch you by your throat and you try to push me in order to save yourself, would you like to call your act of self-defense 'violence'? You won't. It is the will to self-preservation that makes life possible on this earth. Try choking yourself to death, you can't for your own body shall rebel against you, it shall breathe itself out of your grasp. The right to rebellion is inbuilt in the human body, is always already given. Bodies don't lie!
Remember, little David brought down the giant Goliath by stones. The mythical image of the stone-pelter goes back ages. Please don't bullshit about unholy 'violence-non-violence' dyad, it gives bullshit a bad name!
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 1:35 AM, TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
But dear Inder Salim ji. I think I read that statement and expressed my skepticism. If Inder Salim ji says he does not support violence but glorifies stone pelters on any forum to do with Kashmiri separatists, I will have reason to be skeptical about his statement about nonviolence.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Inder Salim" <indersalim at gmail.com>
To: "reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 3:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"
But dear Taraprakash ji
Shudda concludes
"By the way, none of this means that I agree with Mr. SAS Geelani;s
vision of the future. I am merely stating the facts that I know and
witnessed."
Inbox
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cashmeeri
Geelani announced one Article of the Constitution of Free Kashmir - its "Liqu...
2:38 PM (22 hours ago)
Reply
|
Shuddhabrata Sengupta
Well, on these grounds, Syed Ali Shah Geelani is more moderate than Mohandas ...
3:03 PM (22 hours ago)
Shuddhabrata SenguptaLoading...
3:03 PM (22 hours ago)
Shuddhabrata Sengupta
to cashmeeri, Sarai
show details 3:03 PM (22 hours ago)
Well, on these grounds, Syed Ali Shah Geelani is more moderate than
Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who advocated total prohibition,
(regardless of whether one was or was not a believer in any religion)
and was even against the drinking of tea. Does that mean that we think
that his vision of 'Ram Rajya' would be identical to what Aalok Aima
considers to be an Islamic state?
Incidentally, the state of Gujarat, has consistently imposed total
prohibition in deference to M.K. Gandhi's ideas on prohibition for as
long as it has existed as a state of the Indian Union. So, as per Mr.
Aima's suggestion, would we now be prepared to admit that Mr. Modi's
Gujarat (and the Gujarat of all his predecessors) is the closest we
have come to having an 'islamic State' in India. Oh no, the closest we
actually came to being an Islamic state in India was actually during
Morarji Desai;s prime ministership, when some of the current champions
of Hindutva were in power, when total prohibition was imposed on all
of India. In fact we came even closer than the vision of SAS Geelani,
which at least allows the 'non-believer' his or her daily tipple?
Incidentally, Mr. Geelani went on to suggest that if a bottle of
alchohl belongiing to a non believer was willingly or unwillingly
damaged by a Muslim, then the state would have to compensate the
non-believer for that damage. I haven;t quite heard of an Islamic
state willing to pay people to drink alchohl (if their bottle has been
damaged). He went on to quote an 'aayat' that said - "Muslims, do not
insult even the idols (but) of the idol worshippers, for they will
insult your God in return" and that the obligations of humanity are
binding in our relations even with those we consider to be our
enemies. Interesting stuff, coming as it does from the man who is so
offen held up as a figure of inflexible bigotry.
By the way, none of this means that I agree with Mr. SAS Geelani;s
vision of the future. I am merely stating the facts that I know and
witnessed.
best
Shuddha
- Show quoted text -
On 22-Oct-10, at 2:38 PM, cashmeeri wrote:
- Show quoted text -
Geelani announced one Article of the Constitution of Free Kashmir
- its "Liquor Policy":
http://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a176267.html
"The system of justice in an independent Jammu and Kashmir would
be such that even liquor would not be banned for non-Muslims. It would
be prohibited fo......r the Muslim majority but if minorities feel
they want to have liquor they would be allowed to consume as their
right,"
Hello!!!! Hello!!!!
I thought it was going to be a Secular Free Kashmir. This sounds
suspiciously like an Islamic Free Kashmir.
Interesting prospect : Free Kashmir ..... no Non-Muslims ..... no Liquor
Maybe it is the "Tourism Policy"
............. aalok aima
_________________________________________
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Shuddhabrata Sengupta
The Sarai Programme at CSDS
Raqs Media Collective
shuddha at sarai.net
www.sarai.net
www.raqsmediacollective.net
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TaraPrakash
to Shuddhabrata, cashmeeri, Sarai
show details 9:49 PM (15 hours ago)
The point probably the mailer was making and you are missing is that
the assumption is that SASG's "free" Kashmir will be primarily an
Islamic state that will allow some unislamic things to happen. This is
the same vision of Hindu Rashtra that Advani was selling to Indians
when BJP was being seen as taking power away in India.
That you don't necessarily agree with SASG makes no freaking sense to
me especially when you have unequivocally blatantly unskeptically
defended and justified SASG on this forum. By becoming a SASG stooge
you have joined the ranks of RSS. By putting SASG and MK Gandhi in the
same sentence you killed the embodiment of nonviolence once more, and
joined RSS ranks in more than one way.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" <shuddha at sarai.net>
To: "cashmeeri" <cashmeeri at yahoo.com>
Cc: "Sarai" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the
Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"
- Show quoted text -
Well, on these grounds, Syed Ali Shah Geelani is more moderate
than Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who advocated total prohibition,
(regardless of whether one was or was not a believer in any religion)
and was even against the drinking of tea. Does that mean that we
think that his vision of 'Ram Rajya' would be identical to what
Aalok Aima considers to be an Islamic state?
Incidentally, the state of Gujarat, has consistently imposed total
prohibition in deference to M.K. Gandhi's ideas on prohibition for as
long as it has existed as a state of the Indian Union. So, as per Mr.
Aima's suggestion, would we now be prepared to admit that Mr. Modi's
Gujarat (and the Gujarat of all his predecessors) is the closest we
have come to having an 'islamic State' in India. Oh no, the closest
we actually came to being an Islamic state in India was actually
during Morarji Desai;s prime ministership, when some of the current
champions of Hindutva were in power, when total prohibition was
imposed on all of India. In fact we came even closer than the vision
of SAS Geelani, which at least allows the 'non-believer' his or her
daily tipple? Incidentally, Mr. Geelani went on to suggest that if a
bottle of alchohl belongiing to a non believer was willingly or
unwillingly damaged by a Muslim, then the state would have to
compensate the non-believer for that damage. I haven;t quite heard of
an Islamic state willing to pay people to drink alchohl (if their
bottle has been damaged). He went on to quote an 'aayat' that said -
"Muslims, do not insult even the idols (but) of the idol worshippers,
for they will insult your God in return" and that the obligations of
humanity are binding in our relations even with those we consider to
be our enemies. Interesting stuff, coming as it does from the man
who is so offen held up as a figure of inflexible bigotry.
By the way, none of this means that I agree with Mr. SAS Geelani;s
vision of the future. I am merely stating the facts that I know and
witnessed.
best
Shuddha
On 22-Oct-10, at 2:38 PM, cashmeeri wrote:
Geelani announced one Article of the Constitution of Free
Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy":
http://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a176267.html
"The system of justice in an independent Jammu and Kashmir
would be such that even liquor would not be banned for non-Muslims.
It would be prohibited fo......r the Muslim majority but if
minorities feel they want to have liquor they would be allowed to
consume as their right,"
Hello!!!! Hello!!!!
I thought it was going to be a Secular Free Kashmir. This
sounds suspiciously like an Islamic Free Kashmir.
Interesting prospect : Free Kashmir ..... no Non-Muslims .....
no Liquor
Maybe it is the "Tourism Policy"
............. aalok aima
_________________________________________
reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
Critiques & Collaborations
To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
with subscribe in the subject header.
To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
Shuddhabrata Sengupta
The Sarai Programme at CSDS
Raqs Media Collective
shuddha at sarai.net
www.sarai.net
www.raqsmediacollective.net
_________________________________________
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On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:49 PM, TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
The point probably the mailer was making and you are missing is that the
assumption is that SASG's "free" Kashmir will be primarily an Islamic state
that will allow some unislamic things to happen. This is the same vision of
Hindu Rashtra that Advani was selling to Indians when BJP was being seen as
taking power away in India.
That you don't necessarily agree with SASG makes no freaking sense to me
especially when you have unequivocally blatantly unskeptically defended and
justified SASG on this forum. By becoming a SASG stooge you have joined the
ranks of RSS. By putting SASG and MK Gandhi in the same sentence you killed
the embodiment of nonviolence once more, and joined RSS ranks in more than
one way.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta"
<shuddha at sarai.net>
To: "cashmeeri" <cashmeeri at yahoo.com>
Cc: "Sarai" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Geelani announced one Article of the
Constitutionof Free Kashmir - its "Liquor Policy"
Well, on these grounds, Syed Ali Shah Geelani is more moderate than
Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who advocated total prohibition, (regardless of
whether one was or was not a believer in any religion) and was even against
the drinking of tea. Does that mean that we think that his vision of 'Ram
Rajya' would be identical to what Aalok Aima considers to be an Islamic
state?
Incidentally, the state of Gujarat, has consistently imposed total
prohibition in deference to M.K. Gandhi's ideas on prohibition for as long
as it has existed as a state of the Indian Union. So, as per Mr. Aima's
suggestion, would we now be prepared to admit that Mr. Modi's Gujarat (and
the Gujarat of all his predecessors) is the closest we have come to having
an 'islamic State' in India. Oh no, the closest we actually came to being
an Islamic state in India was actually during Morarji Desai;s prime
ministership, when some of the current champions of Hindutva were in power,
when total prohibition was imposed on all of India. In fact we came even
closer than the vision of SAS Geelani, which at least allows the
'non-believer' his or her daily tipple? Incidentally, Mr. Geelani went on
to suggest that if a bottle of alchohl belongiing to a non believer was
willingly or unwillingly damaged by a Muslim, then the state would have to
compensate the non-believer for that damage. I haven;t quite heard of an
Islamic state willing to pay people to drink alchohl (if their bottle has
been damaged). He went on to quote an 'aayat' that said - "Muslims, do not
insult even the idols (but) of the idol worshippers, for they will insult
your God in return" and that the obligations of humanity are binding in our
relations even with those we consider to be our enemies. Interesting
stuff, coming as it does from the man who is so offen held up as a figure
of inflexible bigotry.
By the way, none of this means that I agree with Mr. SAS Geelani;s vision
of the future. I am merely stating the facts that I know and witnessed.
best
Shuddha
On 22-Oct-10, at 2:38 PM, cashmeeri wrote:
Geelani announced one Article of the Constitution of Free Kashmir - its
"Liquor Policy":
http://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a176267.html
"The system of justice in an independent Jammu and Kashmir would be such
that even liquor would not be banned for non-Muslims. It would be
prohibited fo......r the Muslim majority but if minorities feel they want
to have liquor they would be allowed to consume as their right,"
Hello!!!! Hello!!!!
I thought it was going to be a Secular Free Kashmir. This sounds
suspiciously like an Islamic Free Kashmir.
Interesting prospect : Free Kashmir ..... no Non-Muslims ..... no Liquor
Maybe it is the "Tourism Policy"
............. aalok aima
_________________________________________
reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
Critiques & Collaborations
To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
subscribe in the subject header.
To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
Shuddhabrata Sengupta
The Sarai Programme at CSDS
Raqs Media Collective
shuddha at sarai.net
www.sarai.net
www.raqsmediacollective.net
_________________________________________
reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
Critiques & Collaborations
To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
subscribe in the subject header.
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