[Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions

[Inder Salim]

Dear Sonia
i was casually surfing about agriculture, and found this interesting
piece on Kurdistan and its agriculture past, it will be quite slippery
to compare it with kashmir, but what i see is that there are some
historical reasons for decline in particular activity, if rampant.

 People are not happy with rural life, because of number of reasons.
The crafts people are not adequately paid for their skills and they
naturally shun traditional job, and look down disgracefully upon their
own systems which sutain...

but the jobs are  jobs, so a sex workers job is a job as much a
carpenters job is a job.... here certainly people would go for the
easier paths, and which are seen as dignified...and that is what must
have happened in Kurdistan, where they are just little traditional
farming left...

the young boys seeking jobs ( police etc )in Kashmir are because we
traditionally  have never respected the worker, but a govt servant,
who manages to find a healthy wealthy and beautiful bride easily in
comparision to non govt servant.

There is a some histroy: Both Nehru and his dummy politicans in
Kashmir hounded Leftists like mad dogs. Kashmir was a hub of left
poltics during 40 to 60s. but the entire thing was killed by congress
policy of india and kashmir. (G.M Sadiq first centre installed CM was
a leftists ). even if we forget about the histroy how centre humilated
Sheikh abdullah time and again...

The argument may sound out of palce, at the moment, because it does
not actually speak about the current situation, but had the Indian
govt been far sighted, a skilled crafts man, a farmer would not have
looked  down upon their traditons in a sucha a disrespectful manner,
but that is unlikely.

Needless to say, that it was only J&K and West Bengal who  experienced
some land reforms... rest of india was mute spectator to brilliant
changes that were happening under the broad day light.... Shame to
Nehruvian politics of so called socialism, which actually was meant to
gloss the large scale nepotism and lust for power. That thing still
continues, The same Congress and NC are back in power, who joined
hands in histroy at different stages to subvert the actual nature of
kashmir issue.

the discussion can go on
 will come back

hugs
love
is

the link below
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/mar1999/pkk-m12.shtml

Another sociological study states:

"The share of agriculture in gross domestic product sank [from 1962 to
1978] from 40 percent to 22.2 percent, even though the number of those
employed on the land has only dropped slightly (from 9.7 to 9.0
million). A result of this development was sinking incomes for those
working in agriculture and a subsequent migration from the
countryside. Around the cities, gecekondus (shanty towns) sprang up."
[4]

None of this amounts to the formation of a Kurdish bourgeoisie as the
backbone of an independent nation-state, but rather signals the
integration of the Kurdish people into the Turkish and international
working class. The amalgamation of Turkish and Kurdish workers by
means of a common socialist programme lay within reach. The
perspective of a workers government would undoubtedly have opened up
favourable prospects for the structural development of the backward
mountain regions in the struggle against the oppression of the Kurdish
minority.

On the other hand, the project of forming an independent nation-state
was a backwards-looking reaction to this historic development. In the
beginning it won little support, as there was no realistic social
basis for it--apart from a few unemployed Kurdish academics who might
have hoped to find careers and posts in such a state apparatus.

The PKK turned its back on the urban working class. Following its
foundation in 1979-80, it organised a few battles and skirmishes with
the big landowners, which were followed by the peasants with a certain
sympathy from time to time. Support for the PKK remained limited as
they renounced a radical programme to liberate the peasants, so as not
to scare off the "patriotic elements" among the big landowners. Their
bloody conflicts with individual Agas (tribal chiefs), rival Kurdish
organisations and the fascist MHP, more often lead to fear and terror
among ordinary people.

Meanwhile, the social democratic government of Bulent Ecevit was
deliberately raking up national chauvinism and religious differences
in order to gain control of the militant workers movement. The 1974
Turkish invasion of Cyprus occurred during Ecevit's period in office.
He entered a coalition with the Islamic Salvation Party (forerunner of
the present Welfare Party) and introduced the state recognition of
Islamic schools. Once he had engineered clashes in this way, in 1978
Ecevit implemented military rule in the Kurdish provinces. At this
time, there were around a million workers and students who were
members of organisations claiming to be socialist.



On 9/8/10, SJabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
> Not at all.  Please see my reply to Inder Salim.
>
>
> On 08/09/10 1:24 PM, "Jeebesh" <jeebesh at sarai.net> wrote:
>
> > dear Sonia,
>
> To ask questions and to judge are very different. No?
>
> I was just
> > curious if the quizzical ways in which you had mailed the
> posting about
> > lines of young men joining the police could be stretched
> to other moments in
> > near times. Somehow from your response it seems it
> cannot be. You somehow
> > accept one as given and the other as strange.
> Still not sure how you make
> > that distinction.
>
> warmly
> jeebesh
>
> On 07-Sep-10, at 7:32 PM, SJabbar wrote:
>
> >
> > Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or being
> >
> > judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always far more
> >>
> > complicated and illegible
> > than the judgement of the spectator.
> > '
> >
> > So
> > the spectator must suspend judgment, must not question?  Then why
> > do you
> >
> > question when the state acts within its 'iron frame' inherited from
> > the
> > ICS?
> > Mysterious motives must also drive the one who drives you mad by
> >
> > telling you
> > he can't find your file or that you must pay a bribe to get a
> > copy
> > of the
> > challan which you thought due to you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 07/09/10
> > 7:21 PM, "Jeebesh" <jeebesh at sarai.net> wrote:
> >
> >> The so called iron frame of
> > indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS
> > officers.
> >> It was more than getting
> > on with life :)
> >
> > On Kashmir i understand very little
> >> to be able to
> > comment. But some
> > comments seem to mock the people who are
> >> trying to
> > articulate
> > something substantial. A little caution   about
> >> interpreting
> > quickly.
> > The maxim of the actors are always far more
> >> complicated and
> > illegible
> > than the judgement of the spectator.
> >
> > On
> >> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32
> > PM, SJabbar wrote:
> >
> >> Did they?  Or did they do what most
> >> people do, make
> > their peace with
> >> the new
> >> dispensation and get on with
> >> life.
> >>
> >> The
> > point is to understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000
> >>
> >> young
> > men
> >> applying for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what people
> >>
> > are
> >> describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't see the J&K
> >>
> >>
> > Police as
> >> an abhorrent force?  Can it be that they are the relatives of
> > men
> >>
> >> who are
> >> already in the JKP?  Can it be that they don't subscribe
> > to
> >> azadi?
> >> And how
> >> do the families of tens of thousands of men who are
> > in
> >> the JKP and
> >> JAKLI see
> >> their kin?
> >>
> >> Another puzzling matter:
> > we speak
> >> of the AFSPA and its revocation
> >> but the
> >> JKP is not protected
> > by the Act.
> >> And one more thing: the army, that
> >> has
> >> been responsible
> > for the worst
> >> human rights abuses in the last 2
> >> decades is
> >> not
> > targeted by the
> >> stone-pelters.  They continue their work of
> >>
> > patrolling
> >> and cordon &
> >> search operations as if they live on another
> > planet.
> >> The target
> >> is
> >> always the JKP.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM,
> > "Jeebesh" <jeebesh at sarai.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> agreed. but how come they all
> > became unquestionable nationalists
> >>
> >>> after
> >>>
> >> 1947?
> >>
> >> On
> > 07-Sep-10, at 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote:
> >>
> >>> You're
> >> right Jeebesh, and
> >>>
> > most people who were recruited were
> >>> absolutely
> >>>
> >> loyal to the
> > British
> >>> Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress.
> >>> And
> >> why
> >>>
> > just speak of the
> >>> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply
> >> divided
> >>>
> > and very
> >>> few at the
> >>> time articulated it as a 'war for
> >>
> > independence.'  It
> >>> would be
> >>> foolish to
> >>> say that those who served
> > the
> >> British Empire were closet
> >>> nationalists forced
> >>> into furthering
> > their
> >> careers by joining the
> >>> army or
> >>> ICS.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On
> >>>
> > 07/09/10 5:22 PM,
> >> "Jeebesh" <jeebesh at sarai.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> recruitment
> > in
> >>> indian
> >> subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in
> >>> the
> >>>>
> > british army
> >>> was
> >> very high. what did this say about the aspiration
> >>>
> > and lives
> >>>> being
> >> led
> >>> at that time in the sub continent. do we
> > even
> >>> count that number
> >>>>
> >> today in
> >>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in
> > the sub
> >>> continent?
> >>>
> >>> On
> >> 07-Sep-10, at
> >>>> 2:10
> >>> PM, SJabbar
> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> But Gowhar, what happens
> >> when a man who hitherto
> >>>>
> >>>
> > abhors an
> >>>> institution joins
> >>>> it? What
> >> happens to that extreme
> > emotion
> >>>>
> >>> when the line is crossed,
> >>>> when
> >> the
> >>>> uniform is
> > donned, when the
> >>> 'danda'
> >>>> drops firmly into his
> >> hands?
> >>>> By your
> > logic all those who joined
> >>> the force
> >>>> post-1990 once
> >> abhorred
> >>>>
> > the
> >>>> institution and now have become
> >>> the
> >>>> oppressors.
> >> And those
> > who pelt
> >>>> stones
> >>>> at the oppressors now want
> >>> to
> >>>> join
> >> the
> > same hated institution only
> >>>> to become
> >>>> future oppressors?
> >>>
> >>
> > Not
> >>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men?  You may
> >>>> understand this,
> > but
> >> I
> >>> have to
> >>>> tell you, it's left me totally
> >>>>
> > perplexed.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On
> >> 07/09/10
> >>> 1:58 PM,
> >>>> "gowhar fazli"
> > <gowharfazili at yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I don't
> >>> like the
> > heading
> >>>> "Why Kashmir
> >>>>> defies
> >> solutions".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It is
> > in
> >>>>>>
> >>> these moments that the
> >>>> real
> >> desperation and loss
> >>>>>
> > of self of Kashmiris
> >>> as a
> >>>>>> people
> >> becomes
> >>>> evident. For
> >>>>>
> > livelihood they have to stoop
> >>> before the
> >> same
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> > institutions
> >>>>> that torment them or that they abhor
> >>> for
> >>
> > obvious
> >>>> reasons.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> This contradiction that runs through
> > their
> >>>
> >> very selves,
> >>>>>
> >>>> prevents people
> >>>>>> from acquiring a
> > full blown
> >>>
> >> human-hood.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There should
> >>>> be no guilt
> > or
> >>>>>> indignity
> >> associated
> >>> with
> >>>>> acquiring of livelihood
> >>>>
> > through legitimate
> >> means,
> >>>>>> but
> >>> this
> >>>>> is the case one way or
> > the other,
> >>>> for most
> >> people in
> >>>>>
> >>> Kashmir.
> >>>>>> The boundaries
> > between legitimate and
> >>>>
> >> illegitimate
> >>>>> are
> >>> dizzyingly
> > fuzzy
> >>>>>> because of the manner in which
> >> the
> >>>>>
> >>>> selves are
> >>>
> > split.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If not for any
> >>>>>> other but for
> >> the indignities
> >>>>
> > involved
> >>> in
> >>>>> the status quo that Kashmir
> >> issue
> >>>>>> should be
> > resolved for
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> good.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- On Tue,
> >> 9/7/10,
> > SJabbar
> >>>>>> <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>
> > From: SJabbar
> >>>>>> <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> Subject:
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> > [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies
> >>>>>> solutions
> >>>>>> To:
> > "Sarai"
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >>>>>> Date: Tuesday,
> >>>>>>
> > September 7, 2010, 10:19
> >>>
> >> AM
> >>>>>>
> >>>> Printed from
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> > Khaki enemy? 60,000
> >>>>>> Kashmiris
> >> apply for
> >>> 3,000
> >>>> police
> >>>>>
> > jobs
> >>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep
> >> 7,
> >>>>>> 2010, 01.30am
> >>>
> > IST
> >>>>>>
> >>>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of
> >> desertions in its
> > ranks
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> and
> >>>>>> threats of
> >>>> social
> >>>>>>
> >> boycott,
> > J&K police has emerged as a big
> >>> draw
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>>
> >> young
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> > job hunters in
> >>>>>> employment-starved
> >>> Kashmir. Ignoring
> >> calls
> >>>>>>
> > by
> >>>>>
> >>>> hardliners to
> >>>>>> shun the khaki
> >>>>>>
> >>> force,
> >> nearly
> > 60,000 men applied
> >>>>>> for
> >>>> less than 3,000
> >>>>> jobs
> >>>>>> in
> >>>
> >>
> > J&K police --
> >>>>>> about 200 applicants for
> >>>>>>
> >>>> one
> > constable's
> >>>
> >> post.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The applications piled up over the last
> > few
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> months,
> >>>>> about
> >>>>>> the time when the
> >>>>>>
> > situation in the Valley
> >>>
> >> appeared
> >>>> to
> >>>>>> be spinning out
> >>>>>
> > of
> >>>>>> control with the
> >> cops
> >>>>>>
> >>> particularly being
> >>>> at
> > the
> >>>>>> receiving end of public
> >>>>>
> >> wrath.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> J&K
> > police DG Kuldeep
> >>>> Khoda said
> >>>>>> the
> >> department
> >>>>> has
> >>>>>>
> > received
> >>> 58,975
> >>>>>> applications,
> >>>> against
> >> 2,786
> >>>>>>
> > vacancies across the
> >>>>>
> >>> Valley.
> >>>>>> "The response
> >>
> > from
> >>>>>>
> >>>> (the worst-hit)
> >>>>>> Srinagar and
> >>> Budgam districts
> > was
> >> even
> >>>>> more
> >>>>>>
> >>>> heartening," he
> >>>>>> said.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> > "We've received
> >> 2,860 applications, against
> >>>> 529
> >>>>> posts
> >>>>>>
> > in
> >>>
> >> Srinagar
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> district, while 8053 against 283 in
> >>>>
> > Budgam," he
> >>>
> >> said.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lack of jobs
> >>>>>> has been a big spur
> > for the
> >>>>
> >> protests
> >>>>>
> >>> that
> >>>>>> brought thousands
> > of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> young educated
> >> men on to the
> >>>>
> >>> streets.
> > Official
> >>>>> estimates of
> >>>>>> the
> >> number
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> unemployed
> > in
> >>> the
> >>>> Valley stands at 3
> >> lakhs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Khoda told
> >>>>>>
> > reporters the
> >>> department held
> >>>>
> >> a
> >>>>> recruitment
> >>>>>> rally in
> > Baramulla
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> district in July
> >> and was
> >>>> overwhelmed with
> > the
> >>>>> response.
> >>>>>> "Over
> >>> 8,000
> >>>>>>
> >> people
> >>>>>> turned up
> > for
> >>>> 412 posts despite turmoil in the
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >> district,"
> >>>>>>
> > he
> >>>>>> said, and added
> >>>>>>
> >>>> that even stone-pelters
> >>>
> >> attended
> > the rally. He said
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> department
> >>>> was
> >>>>>>
> >>
> > mulling
> >>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives
> >>>>>> across
> >>>>>
> > the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >> Valley,
> >>> particularly
> >>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area
> > to end
> >>>>>>
> >> the
> >>>>
> >>> unrest.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The top cop rubbished
> > reports on desertions
> >> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> insubordination. He
> > claimed
> >>>>>> no police personnel
> >> had quit since
> >>>>
> >>> mid-June
> >>>>>>
> > when
> >>>>> Kashmir
> >>>>>> erupted in
> >> anger
> >>>>>> against the
> >>>
> > alleged
> >>>> staged encounter
> >>>>>> of three
> >> north
> >>>>> Kashmir
> >>>>>>
> > youth and
> >>> a
> >>>>>> 17-year-old
> >>>> boy's killing
> >> in
> >>>>>> police
> > action. Over 60
> >>>>>
> >>> people,
> >>>>>> including
> >> women
> >>>>>>
> >>>> and
> > children, have
> >>>>>> died in police
> >>> firing on
> >>>>>
> >> protesters
> >>>>>>
> > since
> >>>> then.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> State
> >>>>>> government
> >>> sources
> >> said J&K
> > CM Omar
> >>>>> Abdullah,
> >>>> who
> >>>>>> has called for a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> > proactive approach including the phased
> >>>> revocation of
> >>>>>
> >>
> > the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> controversial
> >>>>>> Armed Forces Special Forces
> > Act
> >>>> to
> >> deal with
> >>> street
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> protests, has ordered
> >>>>>>
> > creation of more
> >> police
> >>>> jobs to
> >>> induct youth from
> >>>>>>
> > the
> >>>>>> troubled
> >> areas.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Meanwhile, in
> >>>> its
> >>> ongoing
> > drive to reach out
> >>>>>>
> >> to the
> >>>>> people,
> >>>>>> Kashmir
> > range
> >>>>>>
> >>> IGP
> >>>> Kashmir, S M Sahai,
> >> attended
> >>>>>>
> > police-public
> >>>>> meetings in
> >>>>>>
> >>> Ganderbal
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >> Budgam
> > districts. "At
> >>>>>> Ganderbal District Police
> >>>>>
> >>>
> > Lines,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >> around 300 people
> >>>>>> including senior
> >>>>>>
> > citizens and
> >>> sarpanchs
> >>>>
> >> participated,"
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>> police
> > spokesman
> >>>>>> said.
> >>>>>> "Sahai
> >>>
> >> assured the
> >>>> people that
> > police will
> >>>>> adopt
> >>>>>> maximum
> >>>
> >> restraint
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> while
> > dealing
> >>>> with law and order
> >>>
> >> situations."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> > _________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>> reader-list: an
> > open
> >>>>
> >> discussion
> >>>>>> list on media and the
> >>>>>> city.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> > Critiques &
> >>>>
> >> Collaborations
> >>>>>> To
> >>>>>> subscribe: send an email
> > to
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net
> >>>>>> with subscribe
> >>>>>> in
> > the subject
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> header.
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >>>>>> List
> >>
> > archive:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> > >
> >>>>
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> > _________________________________________
> >>>>
> >> reader-list: an
> > open
> >>>>
> >>> discussion
> >>>>>> list on media and the city.
> >>>>
> >> Critiques
> > & Collaborations
> >>>>
> >>> To
> >>>> subscribe: send an
> >>>>>> email to
> >>
> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >>> subscribe
> >>>> in the subject
> >>>>>>
> >>
> > header.
> >>>> To unsubscribe:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >>>> List
> >>
> > archive:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> > _________________________________________
> >>>> reader-list: an open
> >>>
> >>
> > discussion
> >>>> list on media and the city.
> >>>> Critiques &
> > Collaborations
> >>>>
> >> To
> >>> subscribe: send
> >>>> an email to
> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >>>>
> >> subscribe
> >>> in the subject
> >>>>
> > header.
> >>>> To unsubscribe:
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >>>> List
> > archive:
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > __________________________
> >>>> _______________
> >>> reader-list: an
> > open
> >>>
> >> discussion list on media and the
> >>>> city.
> >>> Critiques &
> > Collaborations
> >>>
> >> To
> >>> subscribe: send an email to
> >>>>
> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >> subscribe in
> >>> the subject header.
> >>>
> > To
> >>>> unsubscribe:
> >>>
> >>
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >>> List
> > archive:
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > ______________________
> >>> ___________________
> >> reader-list: an open
> >>
> > discussion list on media and the
> >>> city.
> >> Critiques & Collaborations
> >>
> > To
> >> subscribe: send an email to
> >>> reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe in
> >> the subject header.
> >> To
> >>> unsubscribe:
> >>
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> List archive:
> >>>
> >>
> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _________________________________________
> >> reader-list: an open
> > discussion
> >> list on media and the city.
> >> Critiques & Collaborations
> >> To
> > subscribe: send
> >> an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >> subscribe
> > in the subject
> >> header.
> >> To unsubscribe:
> >>
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> List archive:
> >>
> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >
> >
> > __________________________
> >> _______________
> > reader-list: an open
> > discussion list on media and the
> >> city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To
> > subscribe: send an email to
> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in
> > the subject header.
> > To
> >> unsubscribe:
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive:
> >>
> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >
> >
>
> ______________________
> > ___________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the
> > city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to
> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
> To
> > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive:
> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>


-- 

http://indersalim.livejournal.com