[Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir

[Bipin Trivedi]

Anupam,

Kashmir is having special status with article 370 and enjoying more rights
than rest of the India. So, your doubts for their rights are irrelevant. I
am worrying for my country and so for Kashmir also, what’s wrong in it. You
or many others like you may not believe that Kashmir is part of India, but
fact is that Kashmir is still part of India. India is spending heavily on
Kashmir, almost highest or second highest per capita spending among all the
states. As a tax payer, we have full right to look in this matter since they
are enjoying aids more than they need. Kashmir is not generating revenue for
their own deeds like not allowing industries, ongoing disturbance does not
allowing to develop tourism and other developments, so unemployment bound to
be there and they themselves are responsible for that. 

Geelani is key conspirator for ongoing disturbance in Kashmir all these
years and responsible for Kashmir remain backwards. India spends heavily on
Kashmir for his negative acts so naturally all the tax payers have full
right to say for his acts. He may not believe him as Indian but enjoying all
the Indian rights, aids and so he is answerable. But, even after so many
years he remains the same and so one should not hesitate to tell him
foolish. I am not creating any disturbance and so there is no question to
tell for him against me. For my writing if he reads he has full right to say
whatever he wants to. Whatever bad things in India do not describe her as
rogue state. That’s internal matter of India and India does not interfere in
other country, not creating any kind of disturbance, terrorism unlike Pak.
That is why Pak is rogue state. No of reasons can be given for Pakistan
being rogue state.

Thanks
Bipin Trivedi


From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:04 AM
To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement
on Rising Deaths in Kashmir

Bipin,

I would not comment on Amnesty Intl position on the Iraq war. I appreciate
that you understand the value of freedom and specific denomination given to
this idea by the developing societies: that there is an underlying bitter
truth about freedom. I think this bitter truth is that freedom comes with
responsibility. Why are you "worried" about Kashmiris? If are you worried
that there are thousands of people, who have died during this conflict. Yes
that is worrisome. Then the resolution of the Kashmir dispute ought to be in
the way Kashmiris want it to be because my freedom here is not at stake, so
to speak of. Nor are yours. Nobody has told you that if you do not worry
about Kashmiris, they are going to bomb your establishment. So far, most of
the acts of terrorism targeting India have always been a list of demands
which have been reported to have originated from the militant sections of
Kashmiris were mostly about their freedom or the recognition of their
rights. From seeking the release of the political prisoners to the protests
or followed by attacks, seeking custody of a body murdered by a bunch of
security men. It has always been about their freedom, which has been
encroached by group of men. The political prisoners might be criminals or
murderers. I may not be in a position to dispute those charges. However,
their motivations do not change, even if we kill them. They are political
prisoners demanding sovereign state, threatening the Indian establishment on
every occasion when their rights are violated. However those who are
demanding that AFSPA should be withdrawn, I presume are also saying that the
ones who have left for the less trodden path could come home. So that the
elders could remind the younger ones to understand their responsibilities
along with this struggle to restore their rights. When there are doubts
about what rights do they have, what responsibility or bitter truths can we
discuss about Bipin on this list? Can the presence of gun wielding men
ensure such an atmosphere, where a discussion about rights vis-a-vis
responsibilities could take place? These questions have been raised not only
in case of Kashmir but also Manipur. 

You are describing Geelani as foolish. But then Geelani has not said
anything about you or the position you hold. He is not even worried about
the other parts of India and expressed a satisfaction or dissatisfaction
over issue not related with Kashmir. And this debate, would you not consider
that if there exists an entity such as rogue Pakistan and very conversely,
in all its manifestations, there exists a rogue India. We might run out of
examples, if we consider the local Panchayat polls where rogue India thrives
in its particularity. To sum up, the territoriality of India cannot rest on
the idea that this territoriality or this integrity could be imposed if the
need arises. It is too weak an idea, will always be an impediment on
building a strong and critical foundation of this country. I am not in a
position to offer resolution for Kashmir or Manipur but a step forward would
be withdrawal of troops from the civilian areas. These are views are however
very personal and not meant to demean certain sacrifices of Indian troops or
rescue work that was carried out during calamities. 

Thanks Anupam

On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
Anupam,

Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and preserve their
boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get away our
territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and  rogue
Pakistan.

But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If that is
the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after
achieving freedom


 I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people reflects in
the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of
Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to alert the
people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the lollipop
of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your situation
will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all.

I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was
planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they possess
chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows that this
was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field. At that
time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than lot of
life would have been saved.

Thanks
Bipin Trivedi


From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM
To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement
on Rising Deaths in Kashmir

Bipin Trivedi

Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you explain your
comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after
achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes that how
the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure
Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free from
separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and if it
happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen if
azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the
territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their aspirations.
And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all those
who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your freedom,
those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that after so
many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate their own
freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such
conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state be on the
agenda or consider the aspirations?

is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no please do not
give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its people, things
about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison breaks, of
utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's security
perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded manner. the
reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think the idea
of territoriality of the state arises from such a position.  



Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International when US
attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you
talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons, where are
you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored by the
Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call "internal
matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal but a
message to people, including commentators here to not try and hijack the
issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that are
remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the debate about
Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of this issue,
not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of content,
it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically flawed.
I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is not the
correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of persons. Even
if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the side of the
state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own sovereignty
over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be referred to as a
tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I cannot see the
foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few tyrants,
who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These are very
personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in last one
and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar positions like
yours Bipin.

Thanks
Anupam
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own interest
of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter and don't
advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to remove
AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business and do not
interfere.

When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces do? They
are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever comes in
between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to
protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces?

Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent power in
Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all. Crooked
separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than total
freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart they are
Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom.

What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally
depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming
separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate state
will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at present
India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think that Pak
will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging from US,
how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US.

For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu people
than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will definitely prefer
to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of state
and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley only.

But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes
that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am
sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free
from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent and
if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to happen
if azadi is given to Kashmiri.

Thanks
Bipin Trivedi


-----Original Message-----
From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net]
On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM
To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net
Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on
Rising Deaths in Kashmir

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: gautam navlakha <gnavlakha at gmail.com>
Date: 18 September 2010 20:24
Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising
Deaths in Kashmir
To: activist <activist at pudr.org>, asish gupta <asishroop at gmail.com>




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Khurram Parvez <khurramparvez at yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM
Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in
Kashmir
To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org




--- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org <iteam at amnesty.org>* wrote:


From: iteam at amnesty.org <iteam at amnesty.org>
Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in Kashmir
To: iteam at amnesty.org
Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM

Dear friends

Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in Kashmir

Best regards,
South Asia Team
Amnesty International
International Secretariat
1 Easton Street
London WC1X ODW
United Kingdom
Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500
Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157

http://www.amnesty.org
http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org

*AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* *
PUBLIC STATEMENT*

AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010

17 September 2010

*
India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in Kashmir*

With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty International
calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure respect for
the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by
police.

With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International urges the
Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not to use
firearms against demonstrators,   Security forces should use the minimum
force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent threat of
death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal use of
firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to protect
life.

Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke out in
Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly by the
security forces, in March.  The vast majority of these killings have been at
the hands of police and paramilitary forces.

An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by shooting in
July has failed to make headway.  Amnesty International renews its call to
the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough
investigation into all the killings.  Members of the security forces
responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be brought
to justice.

In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80 others injured
in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF)
paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held
demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel.

Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled stones at
the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn the
Quran in the United States increased tensions.  Demonstrators attacked two
Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools.

At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty
International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot
protestors who were throwing stones at them.

A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have been under
24 hour curfew for the last five days.

Information about these events has been restricted as a result of strict
enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed Amnesty
International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the
authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the paramilitary
personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to report on the
situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers have
suspended their work.

Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of
expression imposed for the protection of public order should only be such as
are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be consistent
with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key role of
journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of expression,
which includes the right to receive information.  Amnesty International
calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can obtain curfew
passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying out their
professional functions of reporting and imparting information on issues of
public concern.

More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the All Party
Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations in Jammu
and Kashmir.   This underlines the urgency for  the Indian authorities to
instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with
demonstrations.

The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial
execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla district.
Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by security
forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have intensified
during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of demonstrators by
security forces.

The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of
accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed Forces (Jammu
and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army camps –
along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir.

The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security forces,
has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The Central
Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a few of
its districts.

One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting
organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear to figure
in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit Srinagar
on 20 September.

Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings unless
specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely happens in
practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with
impunity.

Ends/


--

Working to protect human rights worldwide

DISCLAIMER

This email has been sent by Amnesty International Limited (a company
registered in England and Wales limited by guarantee, number 01606776 with
registered office at 1 Easton St, London WC1X 0DW). Internet communications
are not secure and therefore Amnesty International does not accept legal
responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not disclose or rely on the information in this e-mail.
Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
necessarily represent those of Amnesty International unless specifically
stated. Electronic communications including email might be monitored by
Amnesty International for operational or business reasons.

This message has been scanned for viruses by Postini. www.postini.com
_________________________________________
reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
Critiques & Collaborations
To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe
in the subject header.
To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>

_________________________________________
reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
Critiques & Collaborations
To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe
in the subject header.
To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>